Location:  #STF-debate

Extra Notes: This is a nearly complete log of the 1998 STF Presidential Debates.

Available portion of the log file:

Session Start: Fri Jun 12 17:58:50 1998

* Logging #STF_debate to 'debate.log'

[17:59] *** traP is now known as Mike_Bourdaa

[18:01] *** Mike_Bourdaa is now known as MikeBourdaa

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[18:25] *** CWyers (CWyers1@slip-32-101-16-29.il.us.ibm.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[18:28] *** REMcCullick (~mrabbit@jaemus-109.mdm.mad.execpc.com) has joined #stf_debate

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[18:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o CaptDeeDee

[18:29] *** CaptDeeDee sets mode: +v CWyers

[18:29] *** CaptDeeDee sets mode: +v MikeBourdaa

[18:29] *** CaptDeeDee sets mode: +v REMcCullick

[18:29] <CWyers> Woohoo!<G>

[18:30] *** CaptDeeDee is now known as STF_Host

[18:30] <STF_Host> Much better

[18:31] *** SOBee (Charres@harconia-1-42.mdm.mke.execpc.com) has joined #stf_debate

[18:31] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SOBee

[18:31] <SOBee> hmm

[18:31] <STF_Host> Hey Nick

[18:31] *** SOBee is now known as STF_Moderator

[18:31] <STF_Moderator> :)

[18:31] <STF_Moderator> acceptable?

[18:32] <STF_Host> Very good. So Nick....you know the routine?

[18:32] <STF_Host> And Colin...could you change to ColinWyers, please?

[18:32] <STF_Moderator> i don't think the room needs to be moderated until the debate starts

<MikeBourdaa> No, leave it moderated, please.

[18:32] <STF_Host> Let it stay Nick...I don't want to forget it later

<MikeBourdaa> I'm logging

[18:33] <STF_Moderator> wow.. so am i... but i log everything

[18:33] <STF_Moderator> :)

[18:33] <STF_Host> Colin, unlike Randy...your last name isn't as well known

[18:33] <STF_Moderator> Colin is running? for what?

<MikeBourdaa> He's a Prez candidate

[18:34] <STF_Moderator> he should use the nick ColinWyers.. and REM should use RandyMcCullick

[18:34] <STF_Host> I figured Randy would be fine as is. His last name is well known

[18:35] <STF_Host> So Nick...you have the periodic info blip ready? The one explaining the Q&A process?

[18:35] *** STF_Moderator has quit IRC (Quit: Best Star Trek RPG on the net http://www.star-fleet.com)

[18:36] *** STF_Moderator (x29sk4@harconia-1-42.mdm.mke.execpc.com) has joined #stf_debate

[18:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o STF_Moderator

[18:36] <REMcCullick> That and the fact that my actually STF name is R.E. McCullick

[18:36] <STF_Moderator> then colin should use ColinWyers

[18:36] <STF_Host> I said that

[18:36] <STF_Moderator> and......?

[18:36] <STF_Host> And he either hasn't noticed....or is ignoring me

[18:37] *** CWyers has quit IRC (Operation timed out)

<MikeBourdaa> or is having connection issues

[18:37] <STF_Moderator> or timed out

[18:37] <STF_Host> That too

[18:38] <REMcCullick> This outta be fun...

[18:39] <STF_Host> I'm lagging a tad. I'm trying for a better time. BRB

[18:39] <REMcCullick> Watch him time out in the middle of his speach.

[18:39] <STF_Moderator> well.. if people even show up

[18:39] <STF_Host> It's early Nick

[18:39] *** STF_Host has quit IRC (Quit: Take action: Vote Bourdaa/McCullick)

[18:39] <STF_Moderator> I'm impatient DD

[18:39] <STF_Moderator> DD's not biased. :)

[18:39] *** STF_Host (~TrekWench@171-231-36.ipt.aol.com) has joined #stf_debate

[18:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o STF_Host

<MikeBourdaa> you know, Deanne may want to unbias her quit message JUST a bit during the debate ;-)

[18:40] <STF_Moderator> WB Hostess

[18:40] <STF_Moderator> Nah

[18:40] <REMcCullick> I'm waiting for Mark to explode in th eother room.....

[18:40] <STF_Host> The key word being DURING <g>

[18:40] <STF_Moderator> is greg there?

[18:40] *** STF_Host sets mode: +v ZCT

<MikeBourdaa> yeah

[18:40] <REMcCullick> Here comes Colin, take 2.....

[18:40] <STF_Host> Yes

[18:41] <STF_Moderator> then i wont go there

[18:41] <ZCT> Ooo

[18:41] *** CWyers (CWyers1@slip-32-101-16-193.il.us.ibm.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[18:41] *** CWyers is now known as ColinWyers

<MikeBourdaa> welcome back, candidate Wyers.

[18:41] *** STF_Host sets mode: +v ColinWyers

[18:41] <ColinWyers> Thank you, candidate Bourdaa.

[18:42] * REMcCullick gags

[18:42] <STF_Host> heh

[18:43] <REMcCullick> I never did like formality.

<MikeBourdaa> no reason to attack Colin now.. I'll wait until 2200 hours

[18:43] <STF_Host> heh

[18:43] <STF_Moderator> COLIN YOU SUCK!!!

[18:44] <STF_Moderator> err.. oops i'll wait

[18:44] <STF_Moderator> ;-)

[18:44] <STF_Host> So you gents all read the email?

[18:44] <ColinWyers> Which one?

[18:44] <STF_Moderator> yeah

[18:44] *** ec-98 (MIK@ts003d05.chi-il.concentric.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[18:44] <STF_Host> About what's happening in here

[18:45] <ColinWyers> Ballway!

[18:45] <ColinWyers> Again: which one?

[18:45] * REMcCullick grumbles and checks his mail box again....

[18:45] *** STF_Host sets mode: +o ec-98

[18:45] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o ec-98

<MikeBourdaa> woowoo

[18:45] *** STF_Host sets mode: +v ec-98

<MikeBourdaa> Deanne, make him an AOP, otherwise chanserv won't trust him

[18:45] <STF_Host> opguard

[18:45] <STF_Host> I'm working on it, Mike

<MikeBourdaa> k

[18:46] <REMcCullick> Deedee, as for method, names in a hat.

[18:47] *** STF_Host sets mode: +o ec-98

[18:47] <REMcCullick> Welcome to my house, Mike!

[18:47] <REMcCullick> I live here!

[18:47] <STF_Host> Okay...that sounds good

[18:47] <ec-98> Eh?

[18:47] <ec-98> Am I permitted answers?

[18:47] <ColinWyers> Um... Ballway, that makes no sense.

<MikeBourdaa> 42

<MikeBourdaa> There's your answer.  ;-)

[18:48] <ColinWyers> "We appologize for the inconvenience."

<MikeBourdaa> ooooh, forgot that one

[18:48] <ec-98> What makes no sense?

[18:48] <ColinWyers> <ec-98> Am I permitted answers?

[18:48] <ColinWyers> Had you said questions, that might have made sense.

[18:49] <ColinWyers> As it is, I'm left clueless.

[18:49] * ec-98 would like to apologize in advance for any brusqueness percieved tonight ... I am under some stress

[18:49] <ColinWyers> Which isn't a SURPRISE, per se, but heck...

<MikeBourdaa> what's wrong, M. Ballway?

[18:49] <ec-98> Please cf. my first question -- "Moderator, who are you?"

[18:49] <REMcCullick> Mike learns quick.

[18:49] <STF_Moderator> **STOP REPEAT OFFENDERS. DON'T RE-ELECT.**

<MikeBourdaa> You've met the moderator. ;-)

[18:49] * ec-98 had to fight to get this computer

[18:49] <ColinWyers> That's Nick.

[18:49] <STF_Moderator> ex-98, I am Nicholas James Oven. and thank you for asking.

* MikeBourdaa lol.. that should be our slogan, Nick

[18:49] <STF_Moderator> err

[18:49] <STF_Moderator> ec-98

[18:50] <ColinWyers> STF_Host is Deanne Morgan

<MikeBourdaa> er.. Randy, I mean

* MikeBourdaa is losing it already

[18:50] <ec-98> So Nick is moderating, Deanne is hosting?

[18:50] <REMcCullick> Bally-boy, we're still in setup, we're in formal for the next minute.

[18:50] <STF_Host> Right

[18:50] <ColinWyers> That's the general notion.

[18:50] <REMcCullick> Yeppers

[18:50] <ec-98> REM -- please don't call me that <g>

[18:51] <ColinWyers> Well, we can't call him Mike...

* MikeBourdaa whispers "shh.. he prefers 'Ballhead'"

[18:51] <ColinWyers> That's Bourdaa.

[18:51] <ec-98> Is there a specific reason why Nick is moderating?

[18:51] <ColinWyers> Um... not that I know of.

[18:51] <ColinWyers> Of course, I don't know a heck of a lot.

[18:51] * ColinWyers is on LOA.

[18:51] * ec-98 slaps Bourdaa

[18:51] <STF_Moderator> Do you have a problem with me moderating?

[18:52] * ec-98 's wits are LOA

[18:52] <STF_Host> Nick's moderator because (a)he's stupid enough to ask for that and (b)he is, in theory, unbiased

[18:52] <REMcCullick> He wanted to. And Deedee said "sure!"

[18:52] <ec-98> I had wanted to moderate.

[18:52] <STF_Host> brb

[18:52] <ColinWyers> He hates all of us equally?

<MikeBourdaa> that's the general idea, Colin

* MikeBourdaa kisses Nick's butt anyway, as if it will do him any good.

[18:53] <STF_Moderator> I asked first, sorry. <g>

[18:53] <STF_Moderator> Yes colin, exactly!! :)

[18:53] <ColinWyers> It's good to be despised.<G>

[18:53] <ColinWyers> Could someone cue me when it's time to act respectable?

[18:53] <ColinWyers> And that's a tough act, too.

[18:54] <ColinWyers> BTW, I didn't think that ZCT was running.

[18:54] <ec-98> God, this is like Marx brothers.

<MikeBourdaa> ok, by my watch, it's 7 minutes till 7

[18:54] <ColinWyers> Marx is evil...

[18:54] <STF_Moderator> Where are hertzsch/phillips?

[18:54] <ColinWyers> Oh, you don't mean Karl. Never mind.

[18:54] <ec-98> by mine, 6 'til 9.  You need to get yours fixed/

<MikeBourdaa> Good question.

[18:54] <ZCT> I am not I am just a spectator

[18:55] <ColinWyers> Time zones, Ballway.

[18:55] <STF_Host> back

[18:55] <ec-98> Yes, CW, I understand.

[18:55] <ColinWyers> He's in Pacific, we're in Central.

[18:55] <ColinWyers> BRB

[18:55] *** Captain_Cadogan (bjphillips@usr02.neocomm.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[18:55] <STF_Moderator> wb host

[18:55] *** Coriolis (betenoire7@ORLDB103-16.splitrock.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[18:55] *** JSpeck (reeper@st1-31.rapidnet.com) has joined #STF_debate

[18:55] <ec-98> WTG CDT!

[18:55] <ColinWyers> DAMN IT! My sister need the phone.

[18:55] *** STF_Moderator sets mode: +v Captain_Cadogan

[18:55] <ColinWyers> BBIAB

[18:56] *** ColinWyers has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)

[18:56] *** STF_Host sets mode: -v ZCT

[18:56] <Captain_Cadogan> I have arrived... B.J. Phillips, running mate of Greg Hertzsch

[18:56] <Captain_Cadogan> just wanted to check in

[18:56] * ec-98 sees

[18:57] <STF_Host> Hello BJ

<MikeBourdaa> well, we have one and one half of the four tickets..

[18:57] <Captain_Cadogan> hey Dee Dee!!!

[18:58] <Captain_Cadogan> you're the host?

[18:58] <STF_Host> Okay, Ballway..you want to moderate?

[18:58] *** Road_Man (~roadman@loukyts21.mis.NET) has joined #STF_Debate

[18:58] *** STF_Moderator sets mode: +o Road_Man

[18:58] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o Road_Man

[18:58] <STF_Host> Yes BJ..sorry...forgot the name was diff

[18:58] *** Road_Man is now known as Greg_Hertzsch

[18:58] *** STF_Moderator sets mode: +v Greg_Hertzsch

[18:58] <Greg_Hertzsch> thanks

[18:59] *** Captain_Cadogan is now known as B

[18:59] <B> oops

[18:59] *** B is now known as BJ_Phillips

[18:59] <STF_Host> I need an answer now on if M. Ballway wants to be moderator.

[18:59] <ec-98> Yes.

[18:59] <STF_Host> You do realize what a major pain in the ass that's going to be?

[18:59] *** Mark (Markaz2001@200-171-63.ipt.aol.com) has joined #stf_debate

[18:59] <STF_Host> Would you rather be host?

[18:59] *** STF_Host sets mode: +v Mark

[18:59] <Mark> Nice show

[19:00] <STF_Host> You need your last name on there, Mark

[19:00] <ec-98> What's the diff?

[19:01] *** Mark (Markaz2001@200-171-63.ipt.aol.com) has left #stf_debate

<MikeBourdaa> so that when people read the logs, they can tell who's who.

[19:01] <STF_Host> Nick is only fielding the Q&A section of the forum.

[19:01] <STF_Host> I'm greeting people and moving us from segment to segment

[19:01] *** Mark_Longanbach (Markaz2001@200-171-63.ipt.aol.com) has joined #stf_debate

[19:01] <ec-98> Yeah, you too Mr. Coriolis, need to be able to differentiate between Coriolis Adams from F5 and Coriolis Brown from F3 ....

[19:01] <STF_Host> The audience has no "voice". Questions have to be /msg to Nick and he will forward them

[19:01] <STF_Moderator> i guess he didn't want to change his name.

[19:01] *** STF_Host sets mode: +v Mark_Longanbach

[19:01] <ec-98> OK ... better that I Host then.  You're biased anyway, you lousy Bourdaa supporter <vvvvbg><jk>

[19:01] <Mark_Longanbach> huH

[19:01] <STF_Host> :P

[19:02] <STF_Host> Fine...the host job is yours...Nick..you're moderator

[19:02] <Mark_Longanbach> can everyone read me okay

[19:02] *** STF_Host is now known as DeanneMorgan

<MikeBourdaa> Hey!  Don't be dissing my supporters!

[19:02] <DeanneMorgan> Please change your nick, Ballway

* MikeBourdaa smiles

[19:02] <BJ_Phillips> hehe

[19:02] <DeanneMorgan> And did you get the email?

[19:02] * DeanneMorgan grins

[19:02] <BJ_Phillips> am I lagged?

[19:02] <Mark_Longanbach> Bill can't attend tonight, so I will relay him the questions by IM and then give them back to you guys okay

[19:02] <STF_Moderator> I AM THE MODERATOR?? WHAT KIND OF CRAP IS THIS?? er.. i mean.. Cool!! :)

[19:02] <BJ_Phillips> hehehe

[19:02] *** ec-98 is now known as STF_Host

[19:02] * BJ_Phillips is nervous

[19:02] * DeanneMorgan *Thwaps* STF_Moderator

[19:03] <Mark_Longanbach> okay!!

[19:03] <STF_Moderator> BJ you are not lagged

[19:03] <DeanneMorgan> So Ballway..did you get the email so you know what's happening...now that it's time to begin?

[19:03] <Mark_Longanbach> can we start

[19:03] <STF_Host> Cool it, Nick, or I'll bust you down to voiceless plebe... <g>

[19:03] * STF_Host insists that he really IS the Election Coordinator

[19:03] <BJ_Phillips> crap... I'm lagged

[19:03] <Mark_Longanbach> this is all whose comming

[19:03] <STF_Moderator> could we give it 5 more minutes

[19:03] <Mark_Longanbach> why bother with the debate

[19:03] <BJ_Phillips> can I change to a different server real quick?

[19:03] <Mark_Longanbach> okay

[19:04] <Mark_Longanbach> its just I dont know how long I can stay on

[19:04] <DeanneMorgan> Mike Ballway...please answer my question

[19:04] <DeanneMorgan> Go ahed BJ

<MikeBourdaa> Because, people will be reading the logs of this debate also.

[19:04] <Mark_Longanbach> where?

[19:04] <DeanneMorgan> Once we officially begin, Bourdaa, yes?

[19:04] <BJ_Phillips> ok... brb

[19:04] <STF_Moderator> I am slightly lagged... what server do y'all suggest I use?

[19:04] *** BJ_Phillips has quit IRC (Quit: B.J.'s Main Page, Version 2.01 - Now Playing! [http://www.neocomm.net/~mphillip])

[19:04] <Mark_Longanbach> are they going to go so people can read them

<MikeBourdaa> it will be posted on the site

[19:04] <REMcCullick> opus.bc.ca.dal.net

[19:05] <STF_Host> DM -- which email?

[19:05] <STF_Moderator> i'm on opus randy.

<MikeBourdaa> Ask me that question when the debate starts, Mark.

[19:05] <DeanneMorgan> About how this is being run

* MikeBourdaa smiles.

[19:05] <STF_Moderator> i'm getting 18+ second pings.

[19:05] <REMcCullick> Hmm...

[19:05] <Mark_Longanbach> hehe

[19:05] <REMcCullick> Staand by for a mass ping.

[19:05] <Mark_Longanbach> huh?

[19:06] *** ColinWyers (CWyers1@slip-32-101-16-3.il.us.ibm.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[19:06] -REMcCullick- [Edge2.0] MikeBourdaa Your Ping Response Was: 16 Seconds

[19:06] *** BJ_Phillips (mphillip@usr02.neocomm.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[19:06] <Mark_Longanbach> really

[19:06] <Mark_Longanbach> is that bad

[19:06] *** ColinWyers has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)

[19:07] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v BJ_Phillips

[19:07] *** niki (terkenn@nikolle.brisnet.org.au) has joined #stf_debate

[19:07] *** CWyers1 (CWyers1@slip-32-101-16-3.il.us.ibm.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[19:07] <BJ_Phillips> better... I'm ready

[19:07] * STF_Moderator is switching servers.. you *will* hold. :P

[19:07] <BJ_Phillips> thanks Dee Dee

[19:07] *** Coriolis has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)

[19:07] *** CWyers1 is now known as ColinWyers

[19:07] *** STF_Moderator has quit IRC (Quit: Best Star Trek RPG on the net http://www.star-fleet.com)

[19:07] *** Coriolis (betenoire7@ORLDB103-16.splitrock.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[19:08] <Mark_Longanbach> a crowd!

[19:08] <DeanneMorgan> The forum will begin in just a few minutes

[19:08] *** STF_Moderator (x29sk4@harconia-1-42.mdm.mke.execpc.com) has joined #stf_debate

[19:08] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v ColinWyers

[19:08] <BJ_Phillips> is Zibby coming, Colin?

[19:09] <ColinWyers> At some point.

[19:09] <BJ_Phillips> ok

[19:09] <ColinWyers> I regret to say he will not be here at the begining.

[19:09] <BJ_Phillips> how long should this last?

[19:09] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +o STF_Moderator

[19:09] <BJ_Phillips> estimated

[19:09] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o STF_Moderator

[19:10] <STF_Moderator> i estimate it'll take longer than 30 seconds..

[19:10] <BJ_Phillips> hehe

[19:10] <STF_Host> 1 hr, 1:30 tops -- right DM?

[19:10] <ColinWyers> What is the order of opening speakers?

[19:10] <Mark_Longanbach> what like an hour or so?

[19:10] <DeanneMorgan> I'd think so.

[19:10] *** REMcCullick has quit IRC (Quit: Vote Bourdaa/McCullick in June!)

[19:11] *** REMcCullick (~mrabbit@jaemus-109.mdm.mad.execpc.com) has joined #stf_debate

[19:11] <ColinWyers> Ballway, it's DD, not DM. Get it right.<G>

[19:11] <BJ_Phillips> yeah... it's Dee Dee

[19:11] <BJ_Phillips> =P

[19:11] <STF_Host> I abbreviate by initials.  Deanne Morgan = DM.

[19:11] <Mark_Longanbach> it also stands for Deutch Mark

[19:12] <STF_Host> Thus, we have a debate among GH, BJP, REM, MB, ML, BG, CW, and AZ, if all show up.

[19:12] *** STF_Moderator changes topic to 'STF Prez Debates           SEND ALL QUESTIONS TO STF_moderator'

[19:12] <DeanneMorgan> And Ballway doesn't know my nickname, guys. Give him a break

[19:12] <BJ_Phillips> yeah... but the appropriate initials are DD =)

[19:12] <DeanneMorgan> :)

[19:12] <BJ_Phillips> hehe

[19:12] <STF_Host> That's Deutsche Mark, and yes.

[19:12] <Mark_Longanbach> Bill Gunty will not show up

[19:12] <BJ_Phillips> ok

[19:12] <Mark_Longanbach> but he is on IM

[19:12] <Mark_Longanbach> so can I relay him the ?s

[19:12] <Mark_Longanbach> and he can answer

[19:12] <Mark_Longanbach> them to me and I will put them up here okay???

[19:12] <STF_Host> OK, Mark.

[19:12] <ColinWyers> What Deutchmark?

[19:12] <Mark_Longanbach> cool

[19:12] <STF_Host> er, OK, ML.

[19:12] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v REMcCullick

[19:13] <STF_Host> Currency for Germany

[19:13] <ColinWyers> I told it to him earlier today.<G>

[19:13] <REMcCullick> Thank you.

[19:13] <DeanneMorgan> Sorry Randy...got people yanking on my chains already

[19:13] <REMcCullick> I need to switch servers.

[19:13] <ColinWyers> Hmm... I ought to learn the name of the country I'm a citizen of.

[19:13] <REMcCullick> needed

[19:13] <REMcCullick> sorry.

[19:13] * ColinWyers makes a note of that.

[19:14] <Mark_Longanbach> can we start soon?

[19:14] <ColinWyers> They're phasing that out for the EMU.

[19:14] <STF_Host> CW, thought you were citizen of Iowa?

[19:14] <DeanneMorgan> We'll start when we're ready, Mark

[19:14] <STF_Host> Not, EMU, it's Euro now.

[19:14] <REMcCullick> One more mass ping...

[19:14] <ColinWyers> All of Europe will become Euroland... sounds like a theme park, eh?

[19:14] <BJ_Phillips> hehehe

[19:14] -REMcCullick- [Edge2.0] MikeBourdaa Your Ping Response Was: 6 Seconds

[19:14] <STF_Host> ALLRIGHTY FOLKS

[19:14] <STF_Host> LET'S BEGIN.

[19:15] * BJ_Phillips wipes the sweat from his face
 
 
 REAL BUSINESS STARTS HERE
 

[19:15] <STF_Host> We have six out of eight in attendance, absentees Andrew Zib and Bill Gunty.

[19:15] <STF_Host> Let's keep it clean, no foul language <heh heh>, no death threats, etc.

[19:15] <STF_Host> WHO IS LOGGING?

<MikeBourdaa> I am

[19:15] <BJ_Phillips> I am

[19:15] <DeanneMorgan> I am

[19:15] <BJ_Phillips> for one

[19:15] <REMcCullick> Gunty will not be coming, and everyone is.

[19:15] <DeanneMorgan> Mike is

[19:15] <STF_Moderator> I am

[19:15] <BJ_Phillips> others probably are too

[19:15] <ColinWyers> Both. Live in Iowa, citizen of both.

[19:15] <STF_Host> One of you please send a copy to Larry Garfield.  No, make that ALL of you.

<MikeBourdaa> Plenty of logs for all

<MikeBourdaa> Where is Larry?

[19:16] <ColinWyers> European Monetary Unit, also called the Euro.

[19:16] <STF_Host> Let's try to annoy Larry by clogging his mbox.

[19:16] <ColinWyers> BRB

[19:16] <DeanneMorgan> Enough Colin

[19:16] <STF_Host> CW> yes, but call it Euro now.

[19:16] <DeanneMorgan> Gentlemen

[19:16] <REMcCullick> Colin and Owen, you are 90 seconds  lagged!

[19:16] <STF_Host> ALRIGHT THAT WAS OUR LAST OFF-TOPIC CONVERSATION.

[19:16] <STF_Host> Now, we shall start with Mr. Hertzsch, who is our Incumbent.

[19:16] <STF_Moderator> REM. Spectator's don't matter. but CW is.

[19:16] <STF_Host> MR. HERTZSCH, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT YOUR PLATFORM (i.e. a speech)

[19:17] <REMcCullick> Only two that were, so I added him.

[19:17] <Greg_Hertzsch> Yes I do............

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[19:17] <STF_Host> chair recognizes the delegate from Kentucky <g>

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[19:20] <ColinWyers> BRB

[19:20] *** ColinWyers has quit IRC (Quit: OHHHHHH... We're from Loud Thunder, our camp is a great one...)

[19:20] <Greg_Hertzsch> During my presidency, STF has grown and thrived.  The WeBB started last August and has grown to over 200 members since then.  It gets new recruits each day.  I think our biggest WeBB challenge is to keep more members from joining then disapearing.  I have a solution.  STF on Prodigy is languishing.  But it has bounced back from this state before and will do so again.  A year ago I implemented changes on Prodigy to jump start STF there.  They w

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[19:21] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v ColinWyers

[19:22] <ColinWyers> Has anything occured yet?

[19:22] <BJ_Phillips> yes... Greg has started his speech

[19:22] <STF_Host> GH is in the middle of his speech.

[19:22] <DeanneMorgan> A part of Greg's speech

[19:23] * ColinWyers nods and keeps quiet.

[19:23] <STF_Moderator> Please /msg someone if you want to ask a question like that

[19:23] <STF_Host> preferably Deanne, myself, or Moderator (Nick O.)

[19:26] <Greg_Hertzsch> Recruiting on Prodigy will not work long term unless our current membership there is active.  In a catch 22, the WeBB has hurt Prodigy because members of both have tended to focus their attention on the WeBB.  I recently implemented changes to the Engineering Department which will better serve matters there.  This is my introduction.  I will of course say more as this debate goes on tonight.   Thank you. :)

[19:27] <STF_Host> STF PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE -- OBSERVERS (i.e. non-candidates) PLEASE "/MSG" QUESTIONS FOR CANDIDATES TO STF_MODERATOR

[19:27] <STF_Moderator> That would be me.

[19:27] <STF_Host> Thank you, Greg.  Now let's hear from a challenger.

[19:27] <STF_Host> THE CHAIR RECOGNIZES THE DELEGATE FROM ARIZONA . . . MR. MARK LOGANBACH, YOUR COMMENTS PLEASE.

[19:28] <DeanneMorgan> And please respond in shorter paragraphs

[19:28] <Mark_Longanbach> Alright then

[19:28] <Mark_Longanbach> I will

[19:28] <Mark_Longanbach> one moment please

[19:29] <Mark_Longanbach> when I came to STF around 3 months ago, I was very pleased, because I have a passion for Star Trek, and this was like a dream, and in my 3 months I have met with other people, some who have become good friends, and others, who have helped m

[19:29] <Mark_Longanbach> e along

[19:29] <Mark_Longanbach> but I have also noticed some things which I think could be better, and even though I may not be the most experienced, or the best RPGer, or the oldest person, I think I can help STF to be better, for everybody

[19:29] <Mark_Longanbach> thank you, short and sweet

[19:30] <STF_Host> STF Presidential Debate -- all observers please "/msg" your questions for candidates to STF_Moderator

[19:30] <Mark_Longanbach> I am finished

[19:30] <STF_Host> Thank you, MR. Loganbach.  Now let's hear from Mike Bourdaa of California.

<MikeBourdaa> I would like to start off by thanking the brave folks who have come to hear us long winded politicians speak ;-)

[19:31] <STF_Host> Try to be long-winded in short, declarative phrases so we don't have to wait so long <g>

<MikeBourdaa> Eleven months ago, the WeBB did not exist.  In under a year, the WeBB has turned STF from a very small group, to a very large group.

<MikeBourdaa> This has not occured without its growing pains.. all of us have had problems with learning how to change our focus from a small, one location group, to a large two location club.

<MikeBourdaa> In that time, we have seen struggles in the Engineering Department, disputes on several ships of varying degrees, and spam attacks from presidental candidates.  And that's just for starters.

<MikeBourdaa> My goal, is to change this.  To reset the hostility that we have seen

[19:34] <Mark_Longanbach> Hey now

<MikeBourdaa> We have to remember that STF is a club.. it's supposed to be fun.

<MikeBourdaa> It's not about "doing ANYTHING" to get power, whether that power is the Presidency, a cabinet position, or a Captaincy.

<MikeBourdaa> That, I believe, is what many of us in STF have forgotten, and that is one thing that we need to change, lest we become like our 1991/1992 forebearers.

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<MikeBourdaa> I thank you for this forum, and I yield the floor to the delegate from Iowa ;-)

[19:36] <STF_Host> Chair recognizes the candidate from the Quad Cities who also claims allegiance to Berlin

[19:36] <ColinWyers> Thank you, Chairpersons, fellow candidates, observers.

[19:37] <ColinWyers> When I joined STF originall, the club was experiencing a period of crisis: Prodigy was dying.

[19:37] <ColinWyers> Our president of the time, Greg Hertzsch, solved the problem in a decidedly non-Libertarian way... throwing money at it.

[19:39] <ColinWyers> Now, STF finds itself in another period of crisis... our membership is experiencing problems not from outside forces, but from internal conflict. How utterly ironic... history has chosen thus to repeat itself, for the Platts and Black Wednesday happened at a similar period of time.

[19:40] <ColinWyers> Now, we have members bickering at each other, infighting... due to this, we have already lost two outstanding members: Jeff Field and Seamus Hughes. I fear the loss of more if we continue along these lines.

[19:40] <ColinWyers> Much ado has been made about our great size... I am currently the captain of the WeBB ship with the largest amount of posts, Starbase 202. Am I proud?

[19:41] <ColinWyers> No. Most of the posting is nothing more than petty bickering in the engineering department. I see a young ensign constantly made uncomfortable by her commanding officers... and that sickens me.

[19:42] <ColinWyers> I remember my first RPG... if it hadn't been fun, I wouldn't have made it this far. If I had been treated like some of my command staff was treating my junior officers, I would not be here today.

[19:42] <ColinWyers> One of the people responsible is in this room here today. They have a plus sign in front of their name.

[19:43] <ColinWyers> Now, am I the best person to solve this great crisis of STF? If I were to take the political route, I would answer unequivicably yes. But I am here for the betterment of STF... even if that means I am not President.

[19:44] <ColinWyers> Please choose the person you feel is best suited to the tasks ahead... I thank you all for your time. Chairman, I yield the floor.

[19:44] <STF_Host> Thank you, Mr. Wyers.  Although I don't know his home state, the Chair recognizes Mr. Phillips, Vice-presidential candidate, who must have something to say <g>

[19:44] <BJ_Phillips> Virginia

[19:44] <STF_Host> Thx much.

[19:46] <BJ_Phillips> I am, what you would say, fairly a newcomer to this club, and certainly to all this political campaining. I have been a part of the WeBB for 10 months now, and I have seen much. I have also formed my own opinions about occurances in STF.

[19:46] <BJ_Phillips> I believe that I can use my insights to effect change in this club of ours.

[19:47] <BJ_Phillips> Some may say that the only thing that a VP is good for is replacing the President when he is absent from STF for one reason or another, but I beg to differ.

[19:49] <BJ_Phillips> If I become VP, I will not just sit contently in my office on the top floor of the perpetual large skyscraper of STF and look down upon the masses... I will work, and work hard, to insure that STF is the best RPG club on the Internet today

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[19:49] <BJ_Phillips> Maybe I am new to this, but what STF needs right now is a fresh mind.

[19:50] <BJ_Phillips> I agree with many things that the Presidential candidates have said... there are problems in STF

[19:51] <BJ_Phillips> but together, I am certain that Greg and myself can continue to advance the well-being of the club for many months come.

[19:51] <BJ_Phillips> I thank you for your time, and I respectfully step away from the podium at this time

[19:52] <STF_Moderator> you don't have to step away. everyone has their own podium :)

[19:52] <BJ_Phillips> oops

[19:52] <DeanneMorgan> We spared no expense

[19:52] * BJ_Phillips blushes

[19:52] <STF_Host> Thank you, B.J.  The Chair recognizes the Vice-Presidential candidate from Wisconsin, Mr. Randy E. McCullick.

[19:52] <BJ_Phillips> ok... I remain at my podium

[19:52] <REMcCullick> Thank you.

[19:53] * STF_Host says he's welcome.

[19:53] <REMcCullick> I may not be the best speller in the world, so don't hold that against me.

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[19:55] <REMcCullick> I've have been involved in STF on and off for 6 years now...almost as long as my running mate Mike Bourdaa. I remember a lot of times here. A lot of good time, as well as the bad times, such as Black April. Previously, I was president of this club, and more recently The Acting Engineering Director.

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[19:56] <REMcCullick> Both of those times, I have fought to end ineffectivness with in this club.

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[19:57] <STF_Host> STF Prez Debate -- Please "/msg" any questions for the candidates to STF_Moderator

[19:57] <REMcCullick> STF has a habit of argueing and bickering and getting nothing done, when left to it's own accords, recently quite visible in the Engineering Department before I took control.

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[19:59] <REMcCullick> Previously it had done this in the Officer's Council in 1996. And in 1992 before Black April. Of the last two, one was an example of the wrong people in power, the other was an example of nobody in power.

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[20:00] <REMcCullick> Those examples make one wonder what the case is this time.

[20:00] <REMcCullick> However, I believe that one can avoid those situations by keeping an open door.

[20:01] <REMcCullick> By listening to what everyone has to say, not just those in command or those in power.

[20:02] <REMcCullick> That is one of the things that I did as president that brought us to the Internet, and it's something I plan to continue as Vice President.

[20:04] <REMcCullick> Regardless of how long someone has been here, STF is not MY club, it is not YOUR club. It is OUR club. And as OUR club, we all should be able to contribute. Not just in the ED, not just in your RPGs, but in everything.

[20:06] <REMcCullick> That is the basis of my open door policy. As VP, I promise to keep my Office, both on Prodigy and on the WeBB open to suggestions ideas and plans to make us better. I promise to bring those ideas to Mike Bourdaa., and to the FComms to help have them weighed out and implemented.

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[20:07] <Road_Man> Sorry about that.  A storm moving through knocked out power for a moment <g>

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[20:07] <REMcCullick> STF has never been about a select few leading the many, that has consistantly led us into blackness, such as the Platts did in 1992. It is about the most capable, and those most willing to listen, and to let the club participate in itself.

[20:08] *** Road_Man is now known as Greg_Hertzsch

[20:09] <REMcCullick> I've held many positions in STF, not to hog power, but to do as much much as I can to this club, which has been a second home to me through the most troubled times of my life. I feel I still have more to give. And I'm sure many of you do, too. And as Vice President, I'll do my best to let you give and participate. Thank you.

[20:09] * STF_Host thanks Mr. McCullick. The Chair would like to ask a question now.

[20:10] <REMcCullick> Okay.

[20:10] <Mark_Lon2> hang on

[20:10] <Mark_Lon2> may Bill gunty speak please

[20:10] <Mark_Lon2> I have his speech

[20:10] <STF_Host> Chair recognizes Mr. Gunty, through Mr. Loganbach

[20:10] <STF_Host> (sorry)

[20:10] <Mark_Lon2> I first found STF just a couple of months ago.  I know that I have not been here anywhere near as long as the other candidates, nor do I have any high ranking positions, other than one CE position.  I feel that the people who have high posi

[20:10] <Mark_Lon2> tions sometimes do not have the same opinions as the Jr. Officers.

[20:11] <STF_Host> STF Prez Debate -- Please "/msg" any questions for the candidates to STF_Moderator

[20:11] <Mark_Lon2> I feel that time in STF or the amount of high ranking positions does not matter.  Heart matters.  The desire to change for the better matters.  There is no way STF would get anywhere if they didn't give the people with out many high ranking

[20:11] <Mark_Lon2>  positions, or people who haven't been there for that much time a chance.

[20:11] <Mark_Lon2> That is it, thank you

[20:12] * STF_Host thanks Mr. Loganbach and Mr. Gunty

[20:12] <STF_Host> The Chair will now ask questions (muahuahuahua) of the candidates.

[20:12] <STF_Host> At the conclusion of the candidate's response, the other candidates may also respond.

[20:12] <STF_Host> (we call this a debate)

[20:13] <STF_Host> First, Mr. Hertzsch-- You are running on your record in office.  What do you consider to be your best policy decision of the last term, and what do you think the biggest quesitons of the next one will be?

[20:14] <STF_Host> (that should read "biggest questions" -- sorry <g>)

[20:15] <STF_Host> STF Prez Debate -- Please "/msg" any questions for the candidates to STF_Moderator

[20:16] <Greg_Hertzsch> My best policy decision was my decision last year to decommission 3 of our ships on Prodigy and to combine our members to increase activity.  It worked.  The biggest question of me will be, where will STF stand one year from now?

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[20:16] <STF_Moderator> If you wish your question(s) to be anonymous, they can be.

[20:16] <STF_Host> Do any of the candidates wish to respond?

<MikeBourdaa> Where STF will stand depends on what comes of this election.  Decommissioning ships, however, is not a blanket solution.. it was simply a responce to the decline in P*'s membership

[20:18] <STF_Host> Mr. Phillips -- as co-PDir, you bring a "recruiting" aspect to your ticket.  What problems, if any, exist in STF's recruiting/personnel management system, and how would an administration with you as Veep handle those problems?

[20:21] <BJ_Phillips> bear with me for a moment

[20:22] <STF_Host> I'll ask another question in the interim--

[20:23] <STF_Host> Mr. Wyers, you fooled us all with your jokes, and now you have a real campaign -- Your main issue is the "not fun" atmosphere of "power grabbing" etc. in STF, even in the ship-command areas.  What, specifically, would you do if elected Prez to ameliorate this problem?

[20:23] <ColinWyers> That's a very good question.

[20:24] <STF_Host> thank you.

[20:24] * STF_Host takes notes while on IRC

[20:25] <ColinWyers> I think that the best thing at this point would be to lead by example. A good president should be someone who is visible to the STF population, who reads multiple ships and is generally respected.

[20:25] <ColinWyers> The next step of that would be to have someone go around and help younger members who are having problems... if nothing else, give them a place to vent their frustrations.

[20:26] <STF_Host> OK.  Mr. Phillips, are you ready?

[20:26] <BJ_Phillips> yes

[20:26] * ColinWyers laughs... someone cuts me off!<G>

[20:26] <STF_Host> Colin, tell us when you're done.

[20:27] <ColinWyers> Done enough. Move on.

[20:27] <STF_Host> BJ, go <g>

[20:27] <STF_Host> Q-- your appraisal of the PDept and what you'd do to fix any problems.

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[20:28] <BJ_Phillips> Right now, I do not see any major problems with our current. A minor problem would be that often recruits may have to wait for more than a day to get an assignment, but that is solely my problem. As both VP and co-PDir (if I choose to remain as co-PDir) , I will make a better effort to see that recruits be assigned in a continuous and timely matter, and insure that problems do not arise

<MikeBourdaa> "Bear with me a moment" has become the motto of the Personnel department, unfortunately.. what used to be a 24 hour turnaround now regularly stretches well over a week.

[20:29] <STF_Host> tell when finished

<MikeBourdaa> What the PDept needs, I feel, is more staff, quite frankly.. it's no longer a one man job.. or even a two man job.

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[20:30] <BJ_Phillips> only because often I find that my time is taken away from me... in the future, I will bear down and make assigning everyone my FIRST job

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[20:30] <Mark_Longanbach> sorry bout this

[20:30] <BJ_Phillips> to bring anyone else into the PD fold could prehaps cause conflict

<MikeBourdaa> To not bring others in makes us far too dependant on the weather in Virginia.

[20:31] <STF_Host> 's OK

[20:32] <BJ_Phillips> you do make a good point, however, I believe that besides the lag the PD-WeBB has done well under my guidance

[20:32] <BJ_Phillips> I'll make time for the PD if I have to, instead of having my time be made for me

* MikeBourdaa sits.. we'll return to this later.

[20:33] <STF_Host> Mr. Phillips, ought we to move on?

[20:33] <BJ_Phillips> yes

[20:34] <STF_Host> Before it gets too late ... the Chair recognizes STF_Moderator for the sake of asking questions from the observers.

[20:34] * STF_Host gives up the Chair

[20:34] <STF_Moderator> Alrighty....

[20:34] <STF_Moderator> First [several] question(s) from Coriolis:

[20:34] <STF_Moderator> <Coriolis> Mr. Loganbach: What things? Being vague is no way to be convincing.

[20:35] <Mark_Longanbach> hmmmm

[20:35] <Mark_Longanbach> what is he refering in that question to

[20:35] <STF_Moderator> your speech

[20:35] <Mark_Longanbach> my speech here

[20:35] <STF_Moderator> yes

[20:35] <STF_Host> (I think he's, in a vague way, regarding your general statements on "change")

[20:35] <DeanneMorgan> <Mark_Longanbach> but I have also noticed some things which I

[20:35] <DeanneMorgan> think could be better,

[20:35] <Mark_Longanbach> ahh well

[20:36] <Mark_Longanbach> let me explain then

[20:36] <Mark_Longanbach> there are several things that I think could be better

[20:36] <Mark_Longanbach> but I mean in changing, I mean like taking more action

[20:37] <Mark_Longanbach> for instance, with our new fleets, I would see to it that I would do everyhting in my power to make sure it gets up and running

[20:37] <Mark_Longanbach> coordinate my efforst with other people to get it up

[20:37] <STF_Host> N.B. that it is our FComm-2 who is holding up the GWF changeover, not the Prez administration.

[20:37] <Mark_Longanbach> do you need more examples, if you do it will be much longer

[20:38] <STF_Host> Try for one or two more.

[20:38] <Mark_Longanbach> alright

[20:38] <Mark_Longanbach> one moment please

[20:38] <Mark_Longanbach> well, I would work on the activeness on the ships

[20:39] <Mark_Longanbach> I have seen that there is sometimes a sluggishness in posting on ships

[20:39] <Mark_Longanbach> I don't mean that no one is responsible, and I do understand that it takes time

[20:39] <Mark_Longanbach> but I would for instance, try lowering the AWOL policy a bit, to encourage people to post more often

[20:40] <Mark_Longanbach> and, also letting the Captains or FComms decide if they want to change it

[20:40] <Mark_Longanbach> any more?

[20:41] <STF_Moderator> Mr. Wyers would like to respond

[20:41] <Mark_Longanbach> alright

[20:41] <ColinWyers> Ok, my opponent here has stated that he would like to have people post more often.

[20:41] <ColinWyers> I would like to know how he thinks this is feasibly possible without holding a gun to people's head.

[20:42] <Mark_Longanbach> may I respond

[20:42] <ColinWyers> The fact is, we are all slaves to that great master called Real Life.

[20:42] <ColinWyers> Not yet, I'm still responding.

[20:42] <Mark_Longanbach> alright

[20:42] <STF_Moderator> Mr. McCullick will respond, then Mr. Loganbach

[20:42] <STF_Moderator> (after colin is done)

[20:42] <Mark_Longanbach> okay

[20:43] <ColinWyers> Furthermore, I would like to know how he expects to monitor and coordinate the transfer of STF2 when he is not even aware of the general details of it, such as who is holding it up. Heck, I'm on LOA and I still know that.

[20:43] <ColinWyers> REM, I yield the floor.

[20:44] <STF_Moderator> I will allow Mr. McCullick to speak now. <G>

[20:44] <REMcCullick> Thank you.

[20:45] <REMcCullick> What concerns me in particular, is this "Rule by fear of AWOL" policy. There are over 100 reasons why people go AWOL. Many of those reasons are understandable. Hardware problems software problems, ISP (or online service) problems.

[20:46] <REMcCullick> It would more likely scare someone away from being in STF if every time they're PC crashed, they were afraid of losing their position in STF.

[20:47] <STF_Moderator> Tell when done

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[20:48] <REMcCullick> Should I continue without the replyee?.

[20:48] <STF_Host> yes

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[20:49] <REMcCullick> And on top of that, even those that ARE there occaisionally need a little time to plan. As a long time GM, I know it takes a little time to plan and formulated actions, escpecially if what someone is doing is COMPLETELY unexpected. Ramifications have to be considered from all ends of things. Add to that a CO or GM that can only log on every day or two, and you have a bit of a wait.

[20:50] <REMcCullick> And requiring that these people log on every day is once again, a deterrent to staying in STF.

[20:50] <REMcCullick> I'm done.

[20:50] <STF_Moderator> Mr. Loganbach may speak

[20:50] <Mark_Lon1> Alright, about the concerns of the Fleet2 from Colin

[20:51] <Mark_Lon1> yes, since I did not know everything about that topic, I couldn't really speak about it fairly

[20:51] <Mark_Lon1> but If I am elected president, all I am saying is what I would try to do

[20:51] <Mark_Lon1> and that would be to learn more about it and perhaps help

[20:51] <Mark_Lon1> now, with Mr. McCullick

[20:52] <Mark_Lon1> I am not intending people to fear the AWOL policy

[20:52] <Mark_Lon1> Its not like, as soon as you would become AWOL, you would lose your position

[20:52] <STF_Host> N.B. -- it's really a closed topic.  The timetable is at the FCOmm-2's discretion.  Insiders report that it will happen within the next couple of months regardless of the new or reelected Prez.

[20:52] <Mark_Lon1> immeadiatly

[20:52] <Mark_Lon1> and there are accidents of course

[20:52] <Mark_Lon1> and as I said, it would be the Captains or even FComm of that fleets descresion

[20:52] <Mark_Lon1> depending on the type of ship

[20:53] <Mark_Lon1> I know of some certain ships where posting has been very slow lately, and I am trying to encourage people to be more active

[20:53] <Mark_Lon1> and I do realize that people have lives

[20:53] <Mark_Lon1> but they also have a time in the day called free time

[20:53] <Mark_Lon1> to do what they want

[20:53] <Mark_Lon1> I am finished

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[20:54] <STF_Host> Nick?

[20:55] <STF_Moderator> The next question was for bourda.. we'll skip it

[20:55] <REMcCullick> Let him get back online first.
 
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[20:56] <STF_Host> any others?

[20:56] *** STF_Moderator sets mode: +o MikeBourdaa

[20:56] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o MikeBourdaa

[20:56] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v MikeBourdaa

[20:56] <STF_Moderator> ok, then we'll ask the question for bourdaa after the one for wyers

-> *stf_moderator* what did I miss? =(

[20:57] <STF_Moderator> <Coriolis> Mr. Wyers: Do you smell what you're shoveling? Either you're intentionally twisting the facts or you just aren't paying attention to your own ship. Which is it? And when have you NOT taken pride in ANYTHING you could?

[20:58] *** ZCT (~zct@dialup-13-02.netcomuk.co.uk) invites you to join #WeBB

[20:58] <ColinWyers> May I add something here?

[20:58] <STF_Moderator> Well the question was directed to you.. Soo.. yeah

[21:00] <Greg_Hertzsch> he is back

[21:00] <ColinWyers> I'm still waiting to see if they'll let me respond to Mark.

[21:00] <STF_Host> yes, respond!

[21:02] <ColinWyers> Owen, you may be correct in the fact that I'm not paying much attention to my ship.

[21:03] <ColinWyers> That's because I'm currently on a Leave of Absence. HOWEVER, from what I saw on my ship, the conclusions I drew seemed substantiated enough. If you disagree, that's fine. Obviously, you won't support me anyways.

[21:04] <ColinWyers> I feel it is up to the voters to decide whether or not what I said is what they beleive. This is a republic, and we do get to vote based on our own opinions.

[21:05] <ColinWyers> If they vote against what I've said, that's fine. We're all in this boat together, and I'll suppose I'll just have to sink with you all if we make the wrong decision here.

[21:06] <ColinWyers> Now, as for your second allegation, I would like to point out this little factor called self esteem.

[21:06] <ColinWyers> As a camp counsellor who's job is to work with younger people, I have been taught that people are supposed to be able to feel good about what they've managed to acheive. Pride is NOT a destructive emotion in and of it's own.

[21:08] <ColinWyers> And, as a side note, I would like to take this opportunity to point out all the pride you've taken in the ED's progress when, in fact, the ED was digressing into a mob rule where NOTHING was being accomplished.

[21:08] <ColinWyers> Thank you for the opportunity to respond. I yield the floor.

[21:08] <STF_Host> Nick, next question?

[21:08] <STF_Moderator> Next Question is for Mr. Bourdaa

[21:09] <STF_Moderator> (wait a minute while i paste it... screwy script doesn't let me paste the whole thing)

<MikeBourdaa> Owen, long winded?  Bah.

[21:09] <STF_Moderator> <Coriolis> Mr. Bourdaa: I, personally, would like to thank you for that wonderful summary of STF's history over the past year, and analysis of its problems. But, one might wonder, how does your experience as the script writer and, later, FComm provide any sort of experience with motivating and promoting STF and other such vital duties of the president?

<MikeBourdaa> I would remind the honorable outgoing Vice President that I have extensive experience outside of STF.

<MikeBourdaa> I presided over STC in 1992, until I was forced to leave Prodigy

<MikeBourdaa> Afterwards, I served as President of the Dykstra Hall Residents' Association, and several other offices, while a student at UCLA

[21:11] <STF_Moderator> just wait. a question of his for your running mate is even longer :)

<MikeBourdaa> and most recently at CSU Fullerton.

<MikeBourdaa> My experience as FComm has also provided me with a lot of Presidental experience

<MikeBourdaa> As some of you know, our President has been.. well, to not throw stones, I won't go into that.   I'll leave it to say that the "Kitchen Cabinet" that we have all heard about..

[21:12] <ColinWyers> In case I made it unclear, I'm done spouting.

<MikeBourdaa> which is, in essence, the Cabinet officers, have been making many of the real decisions in STF since September.

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[21:12] *** Wizard__ (~Wizard__@209-20-7-88.dialin.interlog.com) has left #STF_Debate

<MikeBourdaa> Now, the question is, do you want to be lead by unelected cabinet officers, or choose a good President.  The voters have four choices.

[21:13] <STF_Moderator> Coriolis wishes to be voiced to respond

<MikeBourdaa> One is to continue, with random cabinet officers making decisions, because the President is slow, or unable, to respond,

<MikeBourdaa> The other three are a fresh presepective, and the choice is left to the voters of STF.

<MikeBourdaa> I have no objection to Mr. Townes responding for himself, but I must ask why he was not willing to remain on the ticket himself, to defend his Vice Presidency.

[21:15] *** CWyers1 (CWyers1@slip-32-101-16-107.il.us.ibm.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[21:15] <STF_Moderator> DM or Host, may Coriolis have voice?

[21:15] *** ColinWyers has quit IRC (Quit: OHHHHHH... We're from Loud Thunder, our camp is a great one...)

[21:15] *** CWyers1 is now known as ColinWyers

[21:15] <DeanneMorgan> Interesting

[21:15] <STF_Moderator> I have been told privately Coriolis may not have voice

[21:16] <STF_Moderator> Are you done, mike?

<MikeBourdaa> yes

[21:16] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v ColinWyers

<MikeBourdaa> however I reserve the right to respond to any respondants ;-)

[21:16] <ColinWyers> Thank you.

[21:16] <DeanneMorgan> Wait one moment..I will post Owen's response. This arena is not for personal attacks. And Owen has the right to defend himself to the allegations presented.

[21:17] <BJ_Phillips> may I respond to Mike?

[21:17] <STF_Moderator> Mr Phillips has the floor. Coriolis can wait

[21:18] <BJ_Phillips> let me remind you that one of the members of said "Kicthen Cabinent" is vying for VP on Greg's ticket, and that I have also said (or will say) that I will do whatever that it is my power to make sure decisions get made, quickly and efficiently

[21:20] <STF_Moderator> done?

[21:20] <BJ_Phillips> that is all from me

[21:20] <STF_Moderator> DM Has the floor

[21:21] <BJ_Phillips> yes

[21:21] <DeanneMorgan> Okay. I'm giving Owen voice to make one response to Colin's personal attack.

[21:21] <DeanneMorgan> Colin may respond...but if it goes beyond the clinicial response, he will lose voice

[21:21] <STF_Moderator> Coriolis has the floor

[21:21] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v Coriolis

[21:22] *** ceberus (swanson@ip010048.dialup.ezwv.com) has joined #STF_Debate

[21:22] <Coriolis> Many thanks for your prompt efforts to see that my voice, the voice of a member of this club, is heard.

[21:22] <Coriolis> First, to recall what Colin said:

[21:22] <Coriolis> <ColinWyers> And, as a side note, I would like to take this opportunity to point out all the pride you've taken in the ED's progress when, in fact, the ED was digressing into a mob rule where NOTHING was being accomplished.

[21:22] <Coriolis> While I could certainly answer this with a similarly nasty reply to Colin, I shall avoid such a path.

[21:23] <STF_Host> thank you

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[21:23] <Coriolis> I will merely state that the largest and most vocal body of those participating in the Engineering Department sought a system where many voices were heard.

[21:24] <Coriolis> This body included Aaron Holland, Nick Oven, Larry Garfield, and, even, Colin Wyers.

[21:24] <Coriolis> My first response was opposition.  Why?  Because it would not work.  It would be too cumbersome, too reliant on the whims of the councilmen.

[21:24] <Coriolis> But I acquiesced, and created the EA system.

[21:24] <Coriolis> I was, more promptly than any other accomplishment of this new Engineering Council, proven right.

[21:25] <Coriolis> Meanwhile, Colin, I'm ashamed that somebody who could be in the position to run for the highest seat of power in this club would actually sink so low as to attack a fellow member for reasons entirely unrelated to this campaign, and to do so merely to draw attention away from his own failings.

[21:26] <STF_Host> Mr. Townes...

[21:26] <Coriolis> Thank you, members of this meeting of the elite.

[21:26] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: -v Coriolis

[21:26] <ColinWyers> I would like merely to state that I felt his question implied a personal assault, and decided to respond in kind.

[21:26] <STF_Host> Thank you, Mr. Townes, short answer if you please Mr. Wyers, or no answer at all (preferably)

[21:27] <ColinWyers> BTW, I yield the floor...

[21:27] <STF_Moderator> Mr. Herztsch wishes to respond... (But I'm not sure to who)

[21:27] <Greg_Hertzsch> In response, yes I have allowed my cabinet officers to make decisions, but I think that can be a good thing.  I pride myself on giving my cabinet members some latitude in running their respective departments.  I am always open to suggestions, and if a good suggestion comes along, I will use it if it is good for STF.  All these decisions had to be cleared officially by me anyway.  As to the allegation that I am too slow or unable to respond, well I

-> *stf_moderator* I'm gonna respond to Greg.. short, if he keeps his short

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* MikeBourdaa hmms..

[21:29] <STF_Host> Yes, Greg seems to have taken it up... but now he's gone... Nick, any other questions (preferably without personal attacks within?)

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[21:29] *** STF_Moderator sets mode: +o Greg_Hertzsch

[21:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o Greg_Hertzsch

[21:30] <STF_Moderator> Host, Bourdaa wishes to respond

[21:30] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v Greg_Hertzsch

* MikeBourdaa will allow Greg to finish his statement first ;-)

[21:33] <STF_Host> greg, please finish

[21:33] <STF_Moderator> Hertzsch, respond

[21:33] <ColinWyers> He is unaware of where he left off.

[21:33] <ColinWyers> I am assisting him right now.

[21:33] <Greg_Hertzsch> I thought I did finish.  Maybe I netsplit too soon.  But I wish to also point out that Bourdaa can not promise any thing other than his own Kitchen Cabinet, and that the pool of candidates for his cabinet positions are all people used to, and, in fact, active participants in, the Kitchen Cabinet

[21:34] <STF_Moderator> Mr Wyers may make a short response after greg speaks

<MikeBourdaa> I was responding to Owen's question as to whether I had experience.  I did not, nor do I, intend it as a personal attack on you.  However, you have been asleep at the helm for two terms.  It's time for the executive bathroom to have a new owner.

[21:34] <Greg_Hertzsch> If I didn't finish, someone paste to me what did get through :)

[21:34] <ColinWyers> I rescind my response.

[21:35] <ColinWyers> I did in a query box, Greg.

[21:36] <DeanneMorgan> by me anyway.  As to the allegation that I am too slow or unable to

[21:36] <DeanneMorgan> respond, well I

<MikeBourdaa> Can we continue now, please?  I'm sure there are many other question's waiting to be asked.

[21:36] <REMcCullick> ends there.

[21:36] <Greg_Hertzsch>  As to the allegation that I am too slow or unable to respond, well I am always on IRC and my emailbox is open.  I am always avaulable. :)

[21:37] <STF_Moderator> WAIT EVERYBODY STOP.. if you have a comment, raise your hand. :)

[21:37] <Greg_Hertzsch> I know.  I finished it

[21:37] <STF_Moderator> Are we done, can questions from people other than owen be asked now?

<MikeBourdaa> yes, please

[21:38] <ColinWyers> YES

<MikeBourdaa> We already know how Owen is voting anyway ;-)

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[21:39] <STF_Host> Nick, do you have more questions?

[21:39] <Mark_Lon1> yes please

[21:39] <STF_Moderator> Next question from Fireflower

[21:39] <Greg_Hertzsch> All I can say in response to that is I respectfully disagree with you that I have been asleep at the helm. :)  We are done :)

[21:39] <STF_Moderator> <Fireflower> I wanted to ask each person "What will be the policy on the speed of posting on each ship? Will it continue to be3 diversivied or are there plans to structure ships according to how often they think they will post?

* MikeBourdaa raises his hands

[21:40] <STF_Moderator> Bourdaa/McCullick, do you wish to respond?

<MikeBourdaa> I have recommended, and continue to endorse, a plan to allow ships to decide on a ship by ship, and a fleet by fleet, basis

<MikeBourdaa> the speed of their action and frequency of posting

<MikeBourdaa> Some people prefer slower, some faster.  Each should, within our power, get where they want to be

<MikeBourdaa> This is one reason why new users now indicate what pace of RPGing they desire, in the new user form.

[21:41] <STF_Host> respond then

[21:41] <STF_Moderator> Bourdaa/McCullick may respond. Then Wyers

<MikeBourdaa> Thank you.  I yield to Mr. Wyers.

[21:42] <ColinWyers> Thank you very much, Mr. Bourdaa...

[21:42] <ColinWyers> I remember my first sim... it never finished.

[21:43] <STF_Moderator> yes yes. respond already.

[21:43] <STF_Host> Nick, please recognize Bourdaa

[21:43] <STF_Moderator> I did. when I said Bourdaa/McCullick may respond.

[21:43] <STF_Host> ...quickly

[21:43] <ColinWyers> I remember, in fact, not finishing a sim until I GMed the Montgomery.

-> [#stf_debate] PING

[21:44] <ColinWyers> I think that what we need to do is provide a GMing environment that is casual enough for those who want a slow pace, and quick enough for the ones who log on several times a day.

[21:44] <STF_Moderator> <Fireflower> Is this a realistic plan for speed?

<MikeBourdaa> I believe it is.  By sorting the faster members on certain ships, and the slower ones on others, we have what we want, which is a more enjoyable experience for most people

[21:45] <STF_Host> Colin, you prefer a "happy medium" accessible to all?

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[21:45] *** STF_Moderator sets mode: +o WeBBDude

[21:45] <STF_Moderator> wb

[21:46] <ColinWyers> We shouldn't focus so much on the speed of a ship... instead, we ought to ask, "Is everyone satisfied?"

[21:46] *** WeBBDude is now known as MikeBourdaa

[21:46] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v MikeBourdaa

[21:46] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: -o MikeBourdaa

[21:46] <ColinWyers> If not, we need to transfer people until the majority are satisfied with the pace of a sim.

[21:46] -REMcCullick- [Edge2.0] MikeBourdaa Your Ping Response Was: 1 Seconds

[21:47] <ColinWyers> I yield the floor.

-> *deannemorgan* voice please?

[21:47] <STF_Host> Nick, next question>

[21:47] <STF_Moderator> Mr. Loganbach would like to respond

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* MikeBourdaa tests something

[21:48] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: -v MikeBourdaa

[21:48] <Mark_Lon1> I would like to say, first of all, taht I totally agree with Colin

02.[21:48] * STF_Host will have the nightmare of being a Prez candidate tonight

[21:48] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v MikeBourdaa

[21:48] <Mark_Lon1> about his view on speed

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[21:48] <Mark_Lon1> the ships speed, depends mainly on the Sim

[21:48] <Mark_Lon1> and with the SIM, sims go at different paces

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[21:48] <Mark_Lon1> some are slower, and some are fast paced

[21:48] <STF_Moderator> Mr Hertzsch would like to respond afterwards

[21:48] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v CWyers1

[21:49] <Mark_Lon1> taht is why I belive there should be a set difference on ships for fast posters and GMs, and slow posters and GMs

[21:49] <Mark_Lon1> in fact, I would even suggest that there is a few ships, that are totally based on fast posters, providing a much more ideal environment for them

[21:49] <STF_Host> Some ships fast, some slow, Mark?

[21:50] <Mark_Lon1> well, ships that are based on how people post

[21:50] <Mark_Lon1> a person who posts 1 or 2 or more times a day has an unfair advantage over people that only post 1 a day or less

[21:50] <Mark_Lon1> and the faster poster wont be as fullfilled

[21:50] <Mark_Lon1> in my opinion

[21:51] <Mark_Lon1> I yield to our current president

[21:51] <STF_Moderator> Mr HErtzsch

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[21:51] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v Zibby

[21:52] <Mark_Lon1> I am deeply sorry for interupting, but I must leave, I will attempt to get on later, but I suspect it will be over then.  Thank you for this debate, and I wish everyone else best of luck.

[21:52] <Mark_Lon1> Thank you, and good day, ornight

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[21:53] *** CWyers is now known as ColinWyers

[21:53] <STF_Moderator> Hertzsch?

[21:53] <Greg_Hertzsch> I am in agreement with Mike on this issue.  It was his idea to add the pace question to the join application.  So I agree that each ship should continue to set its own pace.  Then it is up to the PDir to assign everyone appropriately.  Other than that, we have our standard AWOL policy which influences the pace of posters.

[21:53] <AndyZib> thank ye

[21:54] <Greg_Hertzsch> done

[21:54] <STF_Moderator> Question from PKirk

[21:54] <STF_Moderator> <PKirk> question to all candidate. With the recent bickering in STF, how do would you handle such a situation and also keep it from happening again.

[21:54] <STF_Host> Nick, any new questions?

[21:54] <STF_Moderator> Whoever wishes to respond speak freely

[21:55] <STF_Moderator> wasn't that new?

[21:55] <ColinWyers> Um... I think I'll take that, seeing as that's my platform.

[21:55] <AndyZib> Oh all right...

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[21:55] <AndrewZbikowski> that's long enough isn't it :)

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[21:55] <Greg_Hertzsch> I already spoke!  Am I lagged?

[21:55] <STF_Host> he said "done."

[21:56] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v BJP

[21:56] <ColinWyers> I beleive I started talking about such things a while ago in response to Ballway's question...

[21:56] <REMcCullick> Pass it me when you're done, Colin.

[21:56] <ColinWyers> np

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[21:57] <ColinWyers> The way I feel about such things is that we can't be having fun when we spend all sorts of time arguing IC and OOC.

[21:57] *** BJP is now known as BJ_Phillips

[21:57] <STF_Host> Nick, next question

[21:57] <ColinWyers> That was a part of my first sim in STF, and I know I didn't enjoy that part of the sim.

[21:57] <STF_Moderator> I posted it!

[21:57] <ColinWyers> And neither did the other people on the Dresden, including those arguing.

-> [STF_Host] PING

[21:57] <STF_Moderator> <ZCT> Are any candidates planning to make any improvements to the WeBB interface?

<MikeBourdaa> wait, wait.. we're still on Paula's question

[21:58] <DeanneMorgan> Hold up, Nick. Ballway is lagging

[21:58] <STF_Moderator> ok i thought I may have been

[21:58] <DeanneMorgan> He's over 3 minutes behind

[21:58] <STF_Moderator> ok

[21:59] <ColinWyers> I feel that what we need to do is make sure our captains have the proper training if neccessary to moderate situations such as this, and make sure they realize that they can call upon help from their superiors if need be.

[21:59] *** ColinWyers is now known as CWyers

[22:00] * STF_Host is lagging... sorry

[22:00] <CWyers> Now, as I was saying...

[22:01] <CWyers> Basically, the senior staff needs to make it known to the younger staff with problems, and if nothing else, vent.

[22:01] <CWyers> Randy, have a go.<G>

[22:01] <REMcCullick> Thank you.

[22:01] <STF_Moderator> yes, have a go!

[22:01] * STF_Moderator hands a go to every candidate

[22:02] <REMcCullick> As this is also part of myproblems with STF, I wanted to speak next. STF has always had a problem with this in the command areas, althoughth e ships were relatively free of it, this is no longer the case.

[22:03] <REMcCullick> Several steps should be taken I think, to eliminate the problem.

[22:04] <REMcCullick> The first of which, I touched in my speach, is my open door policy, where members have an area to expess their opinions instead of just botting it, and blowing of steam IC ona OOC.

[22:05] <REMcCullick> A second one is that us STF oldsters and early WeBBsters have forgotten how different the STF environment is than anywhere else on the internet. Our style of RPGing was invented on *P.

[22:05] <AndrewZbikowski> What exactly is "this"?

[22:05] <AndrewZbikowski> are you still refering to bickering?

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[22:06] <STF_Moderator> ohmigod

[22:06] <REMcCullick> I have never seen it's like. Ne members need a place to learn the rules, and restrictions of RPGing on our ships.

<MikeBourdaa> Don't worry, Nick.. they'll come back on other servers, I'm sure

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[22:07] <CWyers> wb

[22:07] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +o STF_Host

[22:07] <REMcCullick> Instead of "You Can't do this!" and "Why not", we have the set rules and reg ready from the start. That place would be the Academy.

[22:07] *** qis.md.us.dal.net sets mode: +v STF_Host

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[22:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o STF_Host

[22:08] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v Zibby

[22:08] <STF_Host> awww, crud

[22:08] *** BillsHelper (JOHNSTORER@slip-32-101-11-63.in.us.ibm.net) has joined #STF_debate

[22:08] <REMcCullick> Another way to help this is a more "hands on" approach by the COs and GMs.

[22:08] <REMcCullick> These facters should all be incorporated into helping new members fit in more smoothly and increaseing the overall enjoyment of STF.

[22:08] <REMcCullick> Next?

<MikeBourdaa> BJ, want a crack at this?

[22:09] <STF_Moderator> <Fireflower> Also there is a tendancy for people to be rude to tohers less experienced. I want to know what will be done about that?

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[22:10] <STF_Moderator> Mr. Host, Billshelper would like to be voiced to be the voice of Bill Gunty

[22:10] <REMcCullick> That kinda fits in with this one, Nick.

[22:10] <BJ_Phillips> I agree with Randy on this matter

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[22:10] *** ZCT has quit IRC (indy.in.us.dal.net opus.bc.ca.dal.net)

[22:10] *** Greg_Hertzsch (~roadman@206.28.45.221) has joined #STF_Debate

<MikeBourdaa> splits are us tonight.

[22:10] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v Greg_Hertzsch

[22:10] *** ZCT (~zct@dialup-13-02.netcomuk.co.uk) has joined #STF_Debate

[22:11] <STF_Moderator> <PKirk> question to Mike/Randy. There are many good people in STF with good ideas, how is your campaign going to utilize them and not try to use the "same ole people, the ones who are your friends".Give the club a new life?

[22:11] *** Fireflower (Angel11196@169-116-20.ipt.aol.com) has joined #STF_Debate

[22:11] <STF_Host> Hey, I'm only lagging 183 secs now...

<MikeBourdaa> Excellent question, Paula.

[22:11] <REMcCullick> Agreed.

[22:12] *** Z|bby (andyzib@208.238.140.201) has joined #stf_debate

[22:12] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v Z|bby

<MikeBourdaa> One thing I fully believe in, as does Randy, is the open door policy.  I regularly talk with people who are not "cabinet members", such as yourself, John, Chris, Zibby, etc.

<MikeBourdaa> Now, I believe fully that cabinet spots must go to the people who are best qualified for those positions.  We have a LOT of qualified people now in STF, and the decisions will be difficult.

<MikeBourdaa> But no voice will be unheared.

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[22:13] <REMcCullick> Nor unlistened to.

[22:13] <STF_Moderator> <Z|bby> MikeBourdaa: Could you clarify the open door policy.

<MikeBourdaa> The open door policy, in essence, is that everyone in STF has equal standing when they propose an idea.

[22:14] *** Z|bby is now known as AndyZib

<MikeBourdaa> Whether it's Randy's idea, or yours, or Mark's, or Ensign Foobar, all ideas are judged on their merits, not on the person who's idea it was.

[22:15] <STF_Moderator> <ZCT> Are any candidates planning to make any improvements to the WeBB interface?

[22:15] * STF_Host is down to 1m42s on the lag-o-meter

<MikeBourdaa> Seamus was a great guy.. but he was unpopular at the time when he was new.. he still had a lot of ideas, some of toem were good, and I actively implemented them.

<MikeBourdaa> (them, rather)

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[22:17] <Greg_Hertzsch> I agree with Mike fully.  In fact, anyone who doesn't hold the open door view has no business being president of STF

[22:17] <AndyZib> ZCT: The program part of the WeBB isn't under the control of the canidates, but more of the WeBB's programmer. Myself, I don't know the scripting language.

[22:17] <STF_Moderator> candidates please respond to ZCT's question

<MikeBourdaa> May I make a suggestion.. ZCT's question, I believe, is refering more towards ideas than implementation.

[22:18] <STF_Moderator> ok.. so what's the suggestion......?

<MikeBourdaa> Perl is not a prerequesite to being President (as much as I would like if it were ;-) )

[22:18] *** ColinWyers (CWyers1@slip-32-101-16-156.il.us.ibm.net) has joined #STF_Debate

[22:18] <Greg_Hertzsch> I have ideas I want done for the WeBB, but ultimately it is up to the programmer.  It takes time to work out all the bugs in a program.  I know from experience.

<MikeBourdaa> There have been many ideas proposed.. some like adding frames to the interface, others want hot buttons to switch fleets or ships quickly.

[22:19] *** DeanneMorgan sets mode: +v ColinWyers

[22:19] *** Fireflower (Angel11196@169-116-20.ipt.aol.com) has joined #STF_debate

<MikeBourdaa> I will implement whatever ideas that are suggested that are feasable, and would add convenience to the WeBB.

[22:19] -ZCT- [Edge2.0] MikeBourdaa Your Ping Response Was: 266 Seconds

[22:19] <Greg_Hertzsch> Still, the WeBB beats the hell out of any other CGI web board I have ever seen. :)

[22:19] <AndyZib> hehe. I belive we should set up another topic in the OOC area for suggestions. I can't think of a better place, and we can soon see if other weBB members think the suggestion is a good idea.

[22:20] *** DeanneMorgan has quit IRC (Quit: lagging)

* MikeBourdaa nods. I used to have a suggestions topic in Central HQ. It gave a few of the ideas we have now, such as the roster.

[22:20] <Greg_Hertzsch> We had such a topic.  It can and will be implemented again.

[22:20] *** DeanneMorgan (~TrekWench@171-231-36.ipt.aol.com) has joined #stf_debate

[22:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DeanneMorgan

[22:21] <STF_Moderator> would you like the next question?

[22:21] <STF_Host> yes

[22:21] <STF_Moderator> <PKirk> question to all candidate. With the recent bickering in STF, how do would you handle such a situation and also keep it from happening again.

[22:21] * STF_Host is lagging by under thirty seconds now ... hip, hip, hooray!

[22:21] <AndyZib> Haven't we allready addressed that question?

[22:21] <Greg_Hertzsch> I answered that one.

[22:22] * STF_Host has heard this one before

[22:22] <DeanneMorgan> Yes. Next question, Nick

* MikeBourdaa has heard it too

[22:22] <STF_Moderator> so shoot me. I'm running out of questions. :P

[22:22] <BJ_Phillips> good =)

[22:22] <STF_Host> Want me to ask mine?

<MikeBourdaa> go for it

[22:22] <STF_Moderator> <Fireflower> Ask if there is a plan to regulate a chain of command or post a chain of command somewhere for people to learn?

<MikeBourdaa> That would be the AoO, which Mr. Ballway and Garfield have proposed.. and has been sitting, with no action taken recently, for months.

<MikeBourdaa> (AoO is the Articles of Organization, by the way.. the proposed "Constitution")

[22:23] <STF_Host> AO is good stuff.

[22:23] <AndyZib> Chaian of command? Like who your superiors are and what the -1, -2, -3, -etc really mean?

<MikeBourdaa> Did you mean ship chain of command, or government, Faith?

[22:24] *** STF_Moderator sets mode: +v Fireflower

[22:24] <STF_Moderator> ok.. just got a msg.. nevermind that voice

[22:24] *** STF_Moderator sets mode: -v Fireflower

[22:24] <STF_Moderator> <Fireflower> OK, but will that be a list that will be on the homepage that they can see? And does it contain a posting guideline?

<MikeBourdaa> The AoO is already posted publically.. although it's not official yet, it's the closest thing we have to written law

[22:25] <STF_Moderator> she meant both

[22:25] *** STF_Moderator sets mode: +v BillsHelper

[22:25] <STF_Host> s-f.c/snn/articles/articles.html

[22:25] <Greg_Hertzsch> It is and has been my goal to get the AOO and the JC passed.  More work needs to be done on the AOO though.

[22:26] -ZCT- [Edge2.0] MikeBourdaa Your Ping Response Was: 16 Seconds

[22:26] <STF_Moderator> <Fireflower> JC?

[22:26] <Greg_Hertzsch> Judiciary Council, a Mike Ballway proposal.

<MikeBourdaa> It's a check on the power of the President.

[22:27] * STF_Moderator has regrettable ran out of questions

[22:27] <STF_Host> Give Randy McCullick 1/2 credit.  It's based upon the AC of '96

<MikeBourdaa> Currently, the President is effectively a dictator, if he wants to be.  Nothing can stop an elected President except an election.

[22:27] <Greg_Hertzsch> I had at one time proposed an RC, but I have since changed my mind about that one, for various reasons.

[22:27] <STF_Moderator> <Fireflower> For Court martials and the like or for things like Race and post questions?

<MikeBourdaa> That's why we need the JC.

[22:27] <REMcCullick> Thank you.

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<MikeBourdaa> Mostly for making sure the President doesn't step over the line.  The Fleet Commanders and Captains should be responsible for running their own fleets and ships, in that matter

[22:28] <BillsHelper> VWDude2001 (00:30:26): Different COs and different Department heads all have different styles of command. I believe is should be up to each CO, and Dept head to determine their own Chain of command

<MikeBourdaa> Are there any other questions?  Or is everyone exhausted? ;-)

[22:29] <Greg_Hertzsch> I disagree, Bill.  Each CO has some latitude, but an overall standard for each ship must be maintained.

[22:29] * DeanneMorgan notes we have been here a hair over three hours now

[22:29] <BillsHelper> VWDude2001 (00:31:55): POST: I believe insubordination should not be tolerated no matter how little.  Incidents ofInsubordination that are tolerated will just grow and show other STF members that it is alright to defy the chain of command

[22:29] <STF_Host> Debate will end when this question's debate is over

[22:30] <AndyZib> dang.

[22:30] <Greg_Hertzsch> We do not tolerate insubordination now.

<MikeBourdaa> This is what I'm talking about, though.. sometimes, we take ourselves TOO seriously

<MikeBourdaa> This is supposed to be FUN.

[22:30] <STF_Host> Except the "cute" insubordination <g><jk>

[22:30] <Greg_Hertzsch> Exactly!

[22:30] <BJ_Phillips> thank you, Ballway... thank you, thank you, thank you! (I have a band "concert" tomorrow, so I need my sleep)

[22:31] <BJ_Phillips> yes... I agree wholeheartedly... we often forget why we are all here

[22:31] <BJ_Phillips> to have fun

[22:31] <Greg_Hertzsch> STF is a role playing GAME.  Let us never forget that.  What would STF be without Mr. Hankey Jello? :)

<MikeBourdaa> Some in STF think that it should be their life goal to climb the ladder, to become a Chief, or an XO, or a CO

[22:31] <STF_Host> It would be a lot better.  j/k

<MikeBourdaa> Once they get there, because they're there for the wrong reasons, they expect others to ask "how high?" when they bark at them to jump.

[22:32] <BillsHelper> VWDude2001 (00:34:02): I understand your point Greg. yet I believe for the -1 -2 and -3 positions it should be determined by the CO and department heads.

[22:32] <BillsHelper> VWDude2001 (00:34:03): Sometimes the -3 ranks higher than the -1 so it should be determined by rank not by position.

[22:32] <STF_Moderator> <AndyZib> all: Ship MOTD seem to be unstandardized. Do you think some loose standards should be set?

[22:32] * STF_Host turned down promotion three times before becoming a Commander. He knows what this clubis for.

<MikeBourdaa> You just wanted to stay a CE forever, Mr. Ballway ;-)

[22:33] <BJ_Phillips> I believe that CO's should have the power to choose their own MOTD style according to their personal preference

[22:33] <STF_Host> damn skippy!  I was happy!

[22:33] <REMcCullick> I know that feeling.

[22:33] <AndyZib> Nothing wrong with that :)

* MikeBourdaa grins

[22:33] <Greg_Hertzsch> No.  Each CO should do his own MOTD, subject to FComm approval.

<MikeBourdaa> nothing at all.

[22:33] <BillsHelper> VWDude2001 (00:35:22): Yes I believe each ship should have a standard MOTD.

<MikeBourdaa> On the MOTD issue:  No standards, except of course, no porno ;-)

[22:33] <Greg_Hertzsch> No ~Z~ repeats :)

[22:33] <STF_Host> Aww, c'mon, Mike!

<MikeBourdaa> But I think that COs and XOs need to pay more attention to keeping their MOTDs up to date.

[22:33] <REMcCullick> If each ship had a standard MOTD what would be the point?

<MikeBourdaa> We have children here, Ballway!

[22:33] <STF_Host> Me and who else?

[22:33] <BJ_Phillips> it would limit creativity =)

<MikeBourdaa> Bill and Mark, for two ;-)

[22:34] * DeanneMorgan notes that we are digressing quickly

[22:34] <STF_Host> Hmpf.  It'd be a learning experience.

* MikeBourdaa lol

[22:34] <DeanneMorgan> Gentlemen, perhaps it's time to conclude?

[22:34] <REMcCullick> A ships MOTD is a ship's individuality!

[22:34] <BJ_Phillips> such as the famous Jeff Field "I HAVE A SNAKE, MAN!" =)

[22:34] * STF_Host acknowledges that Deanne has a point.

[22:34] <BJ_Phillips> yes

[22:34] <BJ_Phillips> I agree with Randy

<MikeBourdaa> Oh, I wish Jeff had stayed.. he was the essence of what STF is.. he had fun.. until the pressures from others crushed that fun.

[22:35] <STF_Host> So who has this entire thing on log?

[22:35] <AndyZib> My opinion on my own question: (and it has a strong CE bias) One of my favorite things to see in the MOTD is the ship's class linked to the ship specs for that class. Informed engineers help the sim. :)

<MikeBourdaa> I have a lot of it, Mike.  I'll send it to stf98 tonight

[22:35] <REMcCullick> Me.

[22:35] <STF_Host> Don't do that.  Send it to Larry.

<MikeBourdaa> Oh.. ok.

[22:35] <STF_Host> stf98 is persnickety about attachments.

[22:35] <Greg_Hertzsch> Nobody has it all?

<MikeBourdaa> [22:34] <Greg_Hertzsch> If I am reelected, I promise I'll put a naked pic of me up on the yearbook site! :) hehe

[22:35] <REMcCullick> I'll send mine, too.

[22:35] <AndyZib> That's why I said loose standards. Just a few items that have to be there to better the sim. Easy to find ship specs is always good for newbies

<MikeBourdaa> I just thought we should go on the record there ;-)

[22:36] <REMcCullick> Yes, I do, execpt 3 seconds before it began.

[22:36] <AndyZib> Oh gawd!

[22:36] * DeanneMorgan notes she has what Mike Bourdaa missed

[22:36] <STF_Host> OK, that's reason #1 to elect anyone BUT hertzsch

[22:36] <BillsHelper> VWDude2001 (00:38:19): I agree with AndyZib

[22:36] <Greg_Hertzsch> Mike, paste in the j/k too.  Keep it in context :P. =)

[22:36] * DeanneMorgan declares this forum officially closed
 

REAL BUSINESS ENDS HERE

 
 [22:36] <BJ_Phillips> yeesh...

[22:36] <BJ_Phillips> it's a JOKE people!

[22:36] <DeanneMorgan> You guys are getting silly and I've had too much to drink now

[22:36] <STF_Host> party pooper. <g>

* MikeBourdaa refuses to be consistant, but grudgingly notes you did post j/k

[22:36] <BJ_Phillips> Greg REALLY didn't mean that

[22:36] *** Fireflower (Angel11196@169-116-20.ipt.aol.com) has left #STF_debate

[22:36] <BJ_Phillips> for the record

[22:36] <BillsHelper> VWDude2001 (00:39:03): I have many engineering positions, and I have one GM position.  Without the specs I would have no chance of working efficiently

<MikeBourdaa> I know.. jokes are part of who we are!

[22:37] * STF_Host has now been scared away from voting for Greg

[22:37] <BJ_Phillips> yes... see, we all like to joke!

[22:37] <BJ_Phillips> Greg is no different from any of us

[22:37] *** Greg_Hertzsch is now known as Mr_Hankey_Sinclair

[22:37] <REMcCullick> John, it's over, you can stop now!

[22:37] <DeanneMorgan> The Christmas pooh!

[22:37] *** STF_Host is now known as J_R_Stevenson

[22:37] <BJ_Phillips> hehehe

[22:38] *** DeanneMorgan is now known as CaptDeeDee

[22:38] <J_R_Stevenson> Now I need some bots called Peterson...

[22:38] *** CaptDeeDee sets mode: +v ZCT

[22:38] *** BJ_Phillips is now known as Captain_Cadogan

[22:38] <AndyZib> Also on that note...a generaly easy to find "WeBB index" of some sort would help greatly. I can't even remember where to find the info I need most of the time.

[22:38] * REMcCullick is now......wait this IS my nick...............

[22:38] * ZCT removes his gag

[22:38] <Captain_Cadogan> it's nice to meet you, Mr. Ballway... I've heard a lot about you

[22:38] * CaptDeeDee would like everyone's attention for a quick moment

[22:38] * AndyZib looks at DeDee

[22:38] <J_R_Stevenson> Indeed, I have heard a lot about me too, but I was quite shocked when I first met myself.

[22:38] *** AndyZib is now known as Zibby

[22:38] <CaptDeeDee> Guys...while my mental faculties remain in tact:

[22:38] *** Mr_Hankey_Sinclair is now known as Greg_Hertzsch

[22:39] <Captain_Cadogan> I'm listening Dee Dee

[22:39] <Captain_Cadogan> hehehe

[22:39] <CaptDeeDee> First, thanks Mike Ballway for being here and letting this happen.

[22:39] <Zibby> at least NickServ is on the ball

[22:39] <CaptDeeDee> Second...I hope you guys, the candidates and membership, found this to be a good idea in practice. It was in theory.

[22:39] <CaptDeeDee> And thanks for supporting me with getting it going

[22:39] * J_R_Stevenson bows and then thanks Nick and Deanne for bearing with him and acting as at least 4/5 of the Debate Management

[22:39] <J_R_Stevenson> possibly 5/6

[22:39] <CaptDeeDee> This was my first foray into anything political

[22:39] <Captain_Cadogan> yes... it was benefitial, if not tiring at some points

[22:40] <BillsHelper> VWDude2001 (00:42:02): Sorry I missed most of it everyone!

[22:40] * CaptDeeDee is done asking for attention and now returns to her bottle of Bacardi

[22:40] * J_R_Stevenson took good notes and will put on a truly professional deal next time, 8 months from now, muahuahuahua!

[22:40] <Captain_Cadogan> yikes

[22:40] * CaptDeeDee considers offering her help...but remembers that she told Chris to shoot her if she did

* MikeBourdaa shudders at the thought of doing this AGAIN!

[22:41] * J_R_Stevenson admires Deanne's intelligence

[22:41] * CaptDeeDee laughs

[22:41] * CaptDeeDee blinks

[22:41] * CaptDeeDee makes herself another drink

[22:41] <Zibby> welll...it was interesting :)

[22:41] <Zibby> but I gotta sleep or something

[22:41] <BillsHelper> VWDude2001 (00:43:57): See you in 8 months #STF_Debate, you can count on my I will be here, running.

[22:42] <J_R_Stevenson> Next time, maybe you'll catch something!

[22:42] <J_R_Stevenson> <g>

[22:42] *** Zibby has quit IRC (Quit: syntax: I get knocked down, but I get up again, you'll never keep me down)

[22:42] <Captain_Cadogan> hehe

[22:42] <BillsHelper> VWDude2001 (00:44:28): Longanbach Gunty, "The type of people who can make it happen"

[22:42] <Captain_Cadogan> well, I gotta go... it's been "fun"

[22:42] <BillsHelper> Thanks guys for letting me help bill

[22:42] <BillsHelper> See 'ya

[22:42] *** BillsHelper has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)

[22:44] *** ZCT (~zct@dialup-13-02.netcomuk.co.uk) has left #STF_Debate (ZCT has left the room!)

[22:44] *** MikeBourdaa is now known as traP

[22:44] <J_R_Stevenson> Nick, what have you been doing lately?

[22:45] *** Greg_Hertzsch is now known as Road_Man

[22:45] <Captain_Cadogan> bye everyone!

[22:45] *** Captain_Cadogan (bjphillips@usr34.neocomm.net) has left #STF_Debate

[22:47] <STF_Moderator> Not too much... Working mostly..

Session Close: Fri Jun 12 22:47:30 1998