Notes

Discussion: Classic Trek Ship on Starfleet Command

pstonness — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:19:09 -0500

: Posted by Daniel Lerner in Discussion: Classic Trek Ship
: : Posted by Jen Herr in Discussion: Classic Trek Ship
: : : Posted by Phillip Stonness in Discussion: Classic Trek Ship
: : : : Posted by Daniel Lerner in Discussion: Classic Trek Ship
: : : : 1) If we decided to make a ship based on the re-boot, then we have to wait until the movie comes out, since a lot of Star Trek canon may be changed in that movie. So I think it's premature to create a new ship based on the movie until we actually know what is happening in the movie.
: : :
: : : 1) True.
: : : :
: : : : 2) Last year we had a referendum for a new alt-RPG ship, and the majority of the club indicated that it would stretch club resources too much to create an additional ship. Now, that may have changed since we moved to WeBBspace, etc., but keep in mind we are essentially talking about having TWO ships from the same era. I think we should really check to make sure we have enough interest before we do it.
: : : :
: : : : -Daniel
: : :
: : : 2) False. If I remember the votes correctly, 34 voted for no new ship, 32 voted for the... pirate one? 29 voted for the Farscape-type one, 26 voted for the Lost-In-Other-Universe one, and there were another 20 or so odd votes for the other one. "No New Ship" won the preliminary, but there was no run off. A weak minority wanted no new ship at all.
: : :
: : : - Phillip
:
: I stand corrected.

Whoops, I apologize if I came off as stand-offish. I was tired when I wrote that and didn't notice how the tone came off.
:
: : If these numbers are accurate, taken together, people want a new alt-RPG by a 3 to 1 margin. If anyone interpreted these results to mean that no one wanted a new Alt-RPG, they were not only misrepresenting the results of the study, but really doing the club a disservice. I'm surprised there wasn't some sort of uproar at quashing the Alt RPG idea based on data like this. You don't have to spend a year taking stat classes to realize something is bunk here.

I tried to... <G>
: :
: : It's also extremely interesting that in each of the above mentioned Alt RPG ideas, there are more than enough people to staff the respective ship, assuming that if someone voted for the idea, they would want to play on it. If that assumption is not accurate, you still only need roughly 7 to 10 people to make a viable environment, and I'd be surprised if there weren't that many people interested enough to play on these ships, with these vote totals.

To be fair, it was a club-wide vote, and it can't be expected that even the majority of each pile of voters would eventually join the ship when it was created. But yeah, I think a safe number to start would be 8 or 9. I'd be iffy on 7, unless the Alt-RPG called for a more restrictive environment.
: :
: : While we're at it, lets define "enough interest." In my term, enough interest meant a fully staffed ship (command staff, GM, and full set of DHs), a charter edict, and a ship spec. Does anyone propose a different definition?
: :
: : Jen

I would suggest, possibly, a few JOs to be committed as well. It'll make it easier for the ship to show that it's healthy, and it'll keep the ship stable during its review period, hopefully despite any staff LOAs or AWOLs. It's hard to keep a sim running properly if a DH goes LOA/AWOL and they have no JOs to take over the role in the sim temporarily.
:
: Here is what I propose we need to add any new alt-RPG type ship:
:
: 1) "Enough interest". I would probably agree with Jen with what that mean, but I would add one futher proviso - that it wouldn't stretch the membership too much (something that should be considered whenever we add another ship). Basically that means that even if you have enough people, it would remain active. For example, look at the reasons why Crell had to be sadley decommissioned, even though it had more than seven characters I believe. It's more than just a simple calculation - it's a review over whether it can actually be sustainable.

Just a note on this, I think Crell was down to four or five, last time I checked. Though that was like a year ago.
:
: 2) A test period to ensure the above.

Yeah, that would be crucial.
:
: 3) A member who already holds the rank of Captain willing to help oversee the ship's creation. (I suggest this because a member with the rank of Captain has already shown they know what is needed in running a ship, and is therefore in a much better better situation to help start any new ship - especially an alt-RPG one).

I would go a bit further, perhaps, and throw in an FComm willing to help look over it? Perhaps the one committed to having it in his or her fleet?
:
: 4) It won't run out of sim ideas very quickly.

Agreed. My suggestion would be that the committed GM is required to come up with five unique, thought-out sim plans or outlines that are different yet completely suit the alt-RPG. They would not be made public, but, the CO/FComm(?)/President would have to be satisfied that there is enough potential?
:
: 5) It wouldn't end up violating canon (this has always been my concern every time a 'time-ship' is proposed.

Agreed.
:
: 6) It won't be repetative. There's a reason why it's an alt-RPG ship - because it is a limited alternative to the main type of RP-ing in STF. For example, multiple Enterprise-era ships would probably cross the line.

I'm not so sure on this point. We successfully run 30-some odd ships in one timeline, what's two or three in another? Enterprise might be a bit stinted in terms of stuff you could do within Canon, but TOS would be more ripe.
:
: 7) A fleet that isn't over-loaded with ships that is able to take the new ship.

Yeah, agreed, and with this I again suggest tying the FComm to the project.
:
: 8) A committed GM (possibly a full GM for a new alt-RPG ship?)

Full GM, definitely, I think. And as I said above, I think the commited GM would have to be responsible for coming up with, say, five different, yet applicable, sims that satisfy the powers that be.
:
: Anyway, these are just my suggestions of what would be required to start any new alt-RPG ship - all of which would have to ultimately be decided by the President.
:
: And regarding any Abrams-universe ship - my first point still holds. We can't create an Abrams-universe ship until we actually know something about - which means after the movie comes out.
:
: -Daniel

Come to us, May! You can do it... just a little closer...

- Phillip

Starfleet Command

Discussion: Classic Trek Ship on Starfleet Command

kbromilow — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:44:18 -0500

: : 1) "Enough interest". I would probably agree with Jen with what that mean, but I would add one futher proviso - that it wouldn't stretch the membership too much (something that should be considered whenever we add another ship). Basically that means that even if you have enough people, it would remain active. For example, look at the reasons why Crell had to be sadley decommissioned, even though it had more than seven characters I believe. It's more than just a simple calculation - it's a review over whether it can actually be sustainable.
:
: Just a note on this, I think Crell was down to four or five, last time I checked. Though that was like a year ago.
: :
Just a note here, Crell was decommissioned because of those 7 characters...not one had posted in over 6 weeks, even before that it had been struggling. There just wasn't enough posting interest to keep a simline ongoing. Its time had passed...that doesn't mean that it can't be brought back some time in the future if interest for it picks up again. It is only hidden behind the board.

Ft. Cpt Krys Bromilow
FComm 4

Starfleet Command

Office of the President on Starfleet Command

kbromilow — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:45:37 -0500

: Posted by Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson (President) in Office of the President
: #Edict 21
:
: "One pretty woman means fun at the dance. Two pretty women mean trouble in the house. Three pretty women mean run for the hills."
:
: With Wail's unfortunate departure we've been looking for a new Engineering Director. In my application request I placed a number of conditions, including a requirement for at least a solid framework for an agenda to carry the department through to the end of term. There were several applicants, but only two fulfilled that criteria. Both agenda's were solid and well considered, but one did stand out above the other in terms of content, quality and compatability with my own thoughts on the department. I hope that our new Engineering Director can use the skills she has demonstrated in Command of the Genesis, in her multiple roles as President, Personnel Director, Assistant Personnel director and everything inbetween to give the department that final push back into activity.
:
: It is with great pleasure that I welcome back Jen Herr to the government and appoint her Engineering Director.
:
: Personnel Department please ensure she has appropriate access.
:
: Jen, if you could have your assistant named within 14 days.
:
: A big round of applause for the refrocked Sloth!
:
: Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson
: STF President
: 25th November 2008

Congrats Jen!

Krys

Starfleet Command

Office of the President on Starfleet Command

kbromilow — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:45:57 -0500

: Posted by Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson (President) in Office of the President
: #Edict 22
:
: "Men always believe they are in control of everything around them. When they find out they are not, they think they have failed, instead of learning a simple truth women already know."
:
: A surprisingly large number of applications came in for the Fifth Fleet Commander's position. I wasn't even aware that some of them qualified :P
:
: It seems that Fleet Five is just as popular now as it ever was and I'm glad to see such a fervent interest in helping to build on what former FComm's have achieved. Several didn't come with agenda's despite requests and ultimately I managed to whittle it down to two. Neither had offered written agenda's but had approached me in IRC to discuss it in person, which I found quite refreshing. Both had quite clearly designed paths towards my goals in developing fleet identity and building upon what was already there in conjunction with the crews of each of the ships. Both had different ways of accomplishing this and though both would be interesting to see, one was both more refined and more complete in plans for application.
:
: It is with great pleasure that I make our acting Fleet Commander a not so acting Fleet Commander. Jim Hosick is hereby appointed Fleet Five Commander.
:
: He already has the appropriate access and thus doesn't need it granting.
:
: Jim, please have your assistant named within 14 days.
:
: Dougall is back!
:
: Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson
: STF President
: 25th November 2008

Congrats Jim! You deserve it hon:)

Krys

Starfleet Command

Office of the President on Starfleet Command

pstonness — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:07:18 -0500

: Posted by Krys Bromilow in Office of the President
: : Posted by Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson (President) in Office of the President
: : #Edict 21
: :
: : "One pretty woman means fun at the dance. Two pretty women mean trouble in the house. Three pretty women mean run for the hills."
: :
: : With Wail's unfortunate departure we've been looking for a new Engineering Director. In my application request I placed a number of conditions, including a requirement for at least a solid framework for an agenda to carry the department through to the end of term. There were several applicants, but only two fulfilled that criteria. Both agenda's were solid and well considered, but one did stand out above the other in terms of content, quality and compatability with my own thoughts on the department. I hope that our new Engineering Director can use the skills she has demonstrated in Command of the Genesis, in her multiple roles as President, Personnel Director, Assistant Personnel director and everything inbetween to give the department that final push back into activity.
: :
: : It is with great pleasure that I welcome back Jen Herr to the government and appoint her Engineering Director.
: :
: : Personnel Department please ensure she has appropriate access.
: :
: : Jen, if you could have your assistant named within 14 days.
: :
: : A big round of applause for the refrocked Sloth!
: :
: : Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson
: : STF President
: : 25th November 2008
:
:
: Congrats Jen!
:
: Krys

Congrats, Jen!!!!!

- Phillip

Starfleet Command

Office of the President on Starfleet Command

pstonness — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:07:26 -0500

: Posted by Krys Bromilow in Office of the President
: : Posted by Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson (President) in Office of the President
: : #Edict 22
: :
: : "Men always believe they are in control of everything around them. When they find out they are not, they think they have failed, instead of learning a simple truth women already know."
: :
: : A surprisingly large number of applications came in for the Fifth Fleet Commander's position. I wasn't even aware that some of them qualified :P
: :
: : It seems that Fleet Five is just as popular now as it ever was and I'm glad to see such a fervent interest in helping to build on what former FComm's have achieved. Several didn't come with agenda's despite requests and ultimately I managed to whittle it down to two. Neither had offered written agenda's but had approached me in IRC to discuss it in person, which I found quite refreshing. Both had quite clearly designed paths towards my goals in developing fleet identity and building upon what was already there in conjunction with the crews of each of the ships. Both had different ways of accomplishing this and though both would be interesting to see, one was both more refined and more complete in plans for application.
: :
: : It is with great pleasure that I make our acting Fleet Commander a not so acting Fleet Commander. Jim Hosick is hereby appointed Fleet Five Commander.
: :
: : He already has the appropriate access and thus doesn't need it granting.
: :
: : Jim, please have your assistant named within 14 days.
: :
: : Dougall is back!
: :
: : Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson
: : STF President
: : 25th November 2008
:
: Congrats Jim! You deserve it hon:)
:
: Krys

Yay Jim!

- Phillip

Starfleet Command

Office of the President on Starfleet Command

jhosick — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:13:06 -0500

: Posted by Phillip Stonness in Office of the President
: : Posted by Krys Bromilow in Office of the President
: : : Posted by Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson (President) in Office of the President
: : : #Edict 21
: : :
: : : "One pretty woman means fun at the dance. Two pretty women mean trouble in the house. Three pretty women mean run for the hills."
: : :
: : : With Wail's unfortunate departure we've been looking for a new Engineering Director. In my application request I placed a number of conditions, including a requirement for at least a solid framework for an agenda to carry the department through to the end of term. There were several applicants, but only two fulfilled that criteria. Both agenda's were solid and well considered, but one did stand out above the other in terms of content, quality and compatability with my own thoughts on the department. I hope that our new Engineering Director can use the skills she has demonstrated in Command of the Genesis, in her multiple roles as President, Personnel Director, Assistant Personnel director and everything inbetween to give the department that final push back into activity.
: : :
: : : It is with great pleasure that I welcome back Jen Herr to the government and appoint her Engineering Director.
: : :
: : : Personnel Department please ensure she has appropriate access.
: : :
: : : Jen, if you could have your assistant named within 14 days.
: : :
: : : A big round of applause for the refrocked Sloth!
: : :
: : : Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson
: : : STF President
: : : 25th November 2008
: :
: :
: : Congrats Jen!
: :
: : Krys
:
: Congrats, Jen!!!!!
:
: - Phillip

Congrats Jen

Jim

Starfleet Command

Office of the President on Starfleet Command

rempson — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:36:47 -0500

: Posted by Phillip Stonness in Office of the President
: : Posted by Krys Bromilow in Office of the President
: : : Posted by Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson (President) in Office of the President
: : : #Edict 22
: : :
: : : "Men always believe they are in control of everything around them. When they find out they are not, they think they have failed, instead of learning a simple truth women already know."
: : :
: : : A surprisingly large number of applications came in for the Fifth Fleet Commander's position. I wasn't even aware that some of them qualified :P
: : :
: : : It seems that Fleet Five is just as popular now as it ever was and I'm glad to see such a fervent interest in helping to build on what former FComm's have achieved. Several didn't come with agenda's despite requests and ultimately I managed to whittle it down to two. Neither had offered written agenda's but had approached me in IRC to discuss it in person, which I found quite refreshing. Both had quite clearly designed paths towards my goals in developing fleet identity and building upon what was already there in conjunction with the crews of each of the ships. Both had different ways of accomplishing this and though both would be interesting to see, one was both more refined and more complete in plans for application.
: : :
: : : It is with great pleasure that I make our acting Fleet Commander a not so acting Fleet Commander. Jim Hosick is hereby appointed Fleet Five Commander.
: : :
: : : He already has the appropriate access and thus doesn't need it granting.
: : :
: : : Jim, please have your assistant named within 14 days.
: : :
: : : Dougall is back!
: : :
: : : Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson
: : : STF President
: : : 25th November 2008
: :
: : Congrats Jim! You deserve it hon:)
: :
: : Krys
:
: Yay Jim!
:
: - Phillip

Congratulations Jimbo! Well done!

- Ryan

Starfleet Command

Office of the President on Starfleet Command

rempson — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:38:36 -0500

<snip>
: : : : Posted by Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson (President) in Office of the President
: : : : #Edict 21
: : : :
: : : : "One pretty woman means fun at the dance. Two pretty women mean trouble in the house. Three pretty women mean run for the hills."
: : : :
: : : : With Wail's unfortunate departure we've been looking for a new Engineering Director. In my application request I placed a number of conditions, including a requirement for at least a solid framework for an agenda to carry the department through to the end of term. There were several applicants, but only two fulfilled that criteria. Both agenda's were solid and well considered, but one did stand out above the other in terms of content, quality and compatability with my own thoughts on the department. I hope that our new Engineering Director can use the skills she has demonstrated in Command of the Genesis, in her multiple roles as President, Personnel Director, Assistant Personnel director and everything inbetween to give the department that final push back into activity.
: : : :
: : : : It is with great pleasure that I welcome back Jen Herr to the government and appoint her Engineering Director.
: : : :
: : : : Personnel Department please ensure she has appropriate access.
: : : :
: : : : Jen, if you could have your assistant named within 14 days.
: : : :
: : : : A big round of applause for the refrocked Sloth!
: : : :
: : : : Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson
: : : : STF President
: : : : 25th November 2008
: : :
: : :
: : : Congrats Jen!
: : :
: : : Krys
: :
: : Congrats, Jen!!!!!
: :
: : - Phillip
:
: Congrats Jen
:
: Jim

Congratulations Jen, Well done!! :)

- RJ

Starfleet Command

The role of CTO on Starfleet Command

anoon — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:56:22 -0500

: Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : Posted by Matthew Kleinman in The role of CTO
: : : Posted by Michael Hacking in The role of CTO
: : : Hi all Michael here.
: : :
: : : As I am not sure where this discussion belongs I am going to post it here.
: : :
: : : As the role to the CTO is becoming more common in the club I feel its time to clear a few things up about what a CTO does. What they are responsible for, who they report to, and which departments fall under them who they answer to. Stuff like that.
: : :
The role of CTO like CIO has always been in the past a swing position, and therefore how it works within each ship is upto the CO and the CTO/CIO. Personally I never had a CTO or CIO as I don't think they fit in with true Star Trek. Gene Rodenberry would turn in his grave at the very thought. Unfortunately Deep Space Nine and Voyager messed with his universe and now it doesn't seem so strange to even want such characters.

From what I've seen CTO is no more common that it ever was, more importantly there are ships out in STF that NEED a COS, maybe we should be asking people to consider taking on those posts before we start turning CTO into a regular position.

Amanda

Starfleet Command

Office of the President on Starfleet Command

rthompson — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:18:42 -0500

: Posted by RJ Empson in Office of the President
: <snip>
: : : : : Posted by Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson (President) in Office of the President
: : : : : #Edict 21
: : : : :
: : : : : "One pretty woman means fun at the dance. Two pretty women mean trouble in the house. Three pretty women mean run for the hills."
: : : : :
: : : : : With Wail's unfortunate departure we've been looking for a new Engineering Director. In my application request I placed a number of conditions, including a requirement for at least a solid framework for an agenda to carry the department through to the end of term. There were several applicants, but only two fulfilled that criteria. Both agenda's were solid and well considered, but one did stand out above the other in terms of content, quality and compatability with my own thoughts on the department. I hope that our new Engineering Director can use the skills she has demonstrated in Command of the Genesis, in her multiple roles as President, Personnel Director, Assistant Personnel director and everything inbetween to give the department that final push back into activity.
: : : : :
: : : : : It is with great pleasure that I welcome back Jen Herr to the government and appoint her Engineering Director.
: : : : :
: : : : : Personnel Department please ensure she has appropriate access.
: : : : :
: : : : : Jen, if you could have your assistant named within 14 days.
: : : : :
: : : : : A big round of applause for the refrocked Sloth!
: : : : :
: : : : : Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson
: : : : : STF President
: : : : : 25th November 2008
: : : :
: : : :
: : : : Congrats Jen!
: : : :
: : : : Krys
: : :
: : : Congrats, Jen!!!!!
: : :
: : : - Phillip
: :
: : Congrats Jen
: :
: : Jim
:
: Congratulations Jen, Well done!! :)
:
: - RJ

Congrats Jen. And just in time to. I'm nearly ready to submit my two ship designs! <G>

Duckey

Starfleet Command

The role of CTO on Starfleet Command

mmontemayor — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:41:25 -0500

: Posted by Amanda Noon in The role of CTO
: : Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : : Posted by Matthew Kleinman in The role of CTO
: : : : Posted by Michael Hacking in The role of CTO
: : : : Hi all Michael here.
: : : :
: : : : As I am not sure where this discussion belongs I am going to post it here.
: : : :
: : : : As the role to the CTO is becoming more common in the club I feel its time to clear a few things up about what a CTO does. What they are responsible for, who they report to, and which departments fall under them who they answer to. Stuff like that.
: : : :
: The role of CTO like CIO has always been in the past a swing position, and therefore how it works within each ship is upto the CO and the CTO/CIO. Personally I never had a CTO or CIO as I don't think they fit in with true Star Trek. Gene Rodenberry would turn in his grave at the very thought. Unfortunately Deep Space Nine and Voyager messed with his universe and now it doesn't seem so strange to even want such characters.
:
: From what I've seen CTO is no more common that it ever was, more importantly there are ships out in STF that NEED a COS, maybe we should be asking people to consider taking on those posts before we start turning CTO into a regular position.
:
: Amanda

There was a Tac Officer Chang in TNG who gave Wesley his psych exam at the academy.... I don't think they ever specified what it was he exactly did.

On another note, wouldn't the CTO/CIO/Marines all fall under the CoS Chain of Command, with the CoS being the DH?

~Mike

Starfleet Command

Discussion: Classic Trek Ship on Starfleet Command

hpatnick — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:40:04 -0500

: Posted by Krys Bromilow in Discussion: Classic Trek Ship
: : : 1) "Enough interest". I would probably agree with Jen with what that mean, but I would add one futher proviso - that it wouldn't stretch the membership too much (something that should be considered whenever we add another ship). Basically that means that even if you have enough people, it would remain active. For example, look at the reasons why Crell had to be sadley decommissioned, even though it had more than seven characters I believe. It's more than just a simple calculation - it's a review over whether it can actually be sustainable.
: :
: : Just a note on this, I think Crell was down to four or five, last time I checked. Though that was like a year ago.
: : :
: Just a note here, Crell was decommissioned because of those 7 characters...not one had posted in over 6 weeks, even before that it had been struggling. There just wasn't enough posting interest to keep a simline ongoing. Its time had passed...that doesn't mean that it can't be brought back some time in the future if interest for it picks up again. It is only hidden behind the board.
:
: Ft. Cpt Krys Bromilow
: FComm 4

The next step, it seems to me, would be to hold a vote on the Alt-rpg ship?

Henry

Starfleet Command

Office of the President on Starfleet Command

amartin1718 — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:13:13 -0500

: Posted by Robert Thompson in Office of the President
: : Posted by RJ Empson in Office of the President
: : <snip>
: : : : : : Posted by Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson (President) in Office of the President
: : : : : : #Edict 21
: : : : : :
: : : : : : "One pretty woman means fun at the dance. Two pretty women mean trouble in the house. Three pretty women mean run for the hills."
: : : : : :
: : : : : : With Wail's unfortunate departure we've been looking for a new Engineering Director. In my application request I placed a number of conditions, including a requirement for at least a solid framework for an agenda to carry the department through to the end of term. There were several applicants, but only two fulfilled that criteria. Both agenda's were solid and well considered, but one did stand out above the other in terms of content, quality and compatability with my own thoughts on the department. I hope that our new Engineering Director can use the skills she has demonstrated in Command of the Genesis, in her multiple roles as President, Personnel Director, Assistant Personnel director and everything inbetween to give the department that final push back into activity.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : It is with great pleasure that I welcome back Jen Herr to the government and appoint her Engineering Director.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : Personnel Department please ensure she has appropriate access.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : Jen, if you could have your assistant named within 14 days.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : A big round of applause for the refrocked Sloth!
: : : : : :
: : : : : : Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson
: : : : : : STF President
: : : : : : 25th November 2008
: : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : : Congrats Jen!
: : : : :
: : : : : Krys
: : : :
: : : : Congrats, Jen!!!!!
: : : :
: : : : - Phillip
: : :
: : : Congrats Jen
: : :
: : : Jim
: :
: : Congratulations Jen, Well done!! :)
: :
: : - RJ
:
: Congrats Jen. And just in time to. I'm nearly ready to submit my two ship designs! <G>
:
: Duckey

Way to go, Super Jen!

-Anthony

Starfleet Command

Office of the President on Starfleet Command

amartin1718 — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:14:29 -0500

: Posted by RJ Empson in Office of the President
: : Posted by Phillip Stonness in Office of the President
: : : Posted by Krys Bromilow in Office of the President
: : : : Posted by Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson (President) in Office of the President
: : : : #Edict 22
: : : :
: : : : "Men always believe they are in control of everything around them. When they find out they are not, they think they have failed, instead of learning a simple truth women already know."
: : : :
: : : : A surprisingly large number of applications came in for the Fifth Fleet Commander's position. I wasn't even aware that some of them qualified :P
: : : :
: : : : It seems that Fleet Five is just as popular now as it ever was and I'm glad to see such a fervent interest in helping to build on what former FComm's have achieved. Several didn't come with agenda's despite requests and ultimately I managed to whittle it down to two. Neither had offered written agenda's but had approached me in IRC to discuss it in person, which I found quite refreshing. Both had quite clearly designed paths towards my goals in developing fleet identity and building upon what was already there in conjunction with the crews of each of the ships. Both had different ways of accomplishing this and though both would be interesting to see, one was both more refined and more complete in plans for application.
: : : :
: : : : It is with great pleasure that I make our acting Fleet Commander a not so acting Fleet Commander. Jim Hosick is hereby appointed Fleet Five Commander.
: : : :
: : : : He already has the appropriate access and thus doesn't need it granting.
: : : :
: : : : Jim, please have your assistant named within 14 days.
: : : :
: : : : Dougall is back!
: : : :
: : : : Fleet Admiral Andrew "Wolfe" Robinson
: : : : STF President
: : : : 25th November 2008
: : :
: : : Congrats Jim! You deserve it hon:)
: : :
: : : Krys
: :
: : Yay Jim!
: :
: : - Phillip
:
: Congratulations Jimbo! Well done!
:
: - Ryan

Good stuff! Well deserved.

-Anthony

Starfleet Command

The role of CTO on Starfleet Command

Michael Hacking — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:01:12 -0500

: Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : Posted by Amanda Noon in The role of CTO
: : : Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : : : Posted by Matthew Kleinman in The role of CTO
: : : : : Posted by Michael Hacking in The role of CTO
: : : : : Hi all Michael here.
: : : : :
: : : : : As I am not sure where this discussion belongs I am going to post it here.
: : : : :
: : : : : As the role to the CTO is becoming more common in the club I feel its time to clear a few things up about what a CTO does. What they are responsible for, who they report to, and which departments fall under them who they answer to. Stuff like that.
: : : : :
: : The role of CTO like CIO has always been in the past a swing position, and therefore how it works within each ship is upto the CO and the CTO/CIO. Personally I never had a CTO or CIO as I don't think they fit in with true Star Trek. Gene Rodenberry would turn in his grave at the very thought. Unfortunately Deep Space Nine and Voyager messed with his universe and now it doesn't seem so strange to even want such characters.
: :
: : From what I've seen CTO is no more common that it ever was, more importantly there are ships out in STF that NEED a COS, maybe we should be asking people to consider taking on those posts before we start turning CTO into a regular position.

I fully agree with you there Amanda. The COS is a must on every ship. I think every ship should have a COS, CE, CSO, CMO with a at less one JO in each area before the "Swing" roles are considered. Ie CTO, CIO, Marines, pilots, Yomans, etc etc etc.

I haven't counted the CNS in that one because some captains feel there is not alway an need for one. If as a captain you do then it would be classed as a DH but there is not always a need for a JO. (Gray area thing, and not really part of what I am saying here.)

: : Amanda
:
: There was a Tac Officer Chang in TNG who gave Wesley his psych exam at the academy.... I don't think they ever specified what it was he exactly did.
:
: On another note, wouldn't the CTO/CIO/Marines all fall under the CoS Chain of Command, with the CoS being the DH?

On this one I think the CTO should be counted as a DH. The name says it all in my view. Chief Tactical Officer. Like Chief Engineer or Chief Medical officer. I think the CTO should work along side not replay the COS. There two roles are one of the same. So they should work as team or partnership. With each helping the other.

An idea if you want the Tactical officer to fall under the COS make him or she a Lt jg and call them something along the lines of TO. (Tactical Officer) or TA (Tactical Adviser) This way it is clear that they are not a DH. It works the other way as well. If you have a Sec officer who you want to give them something new to do or think they would suit a more combat role better make them a "S.ta" (Security. Tactical adviser.) The S. bit to show they are a sec officer first and that is there main role. The "ta" in small case to show they are a Tactical adviser second. Just an idea. Just trying to help, Maybe you haven't considered it in the past. I don't know? But as I say its just an idea. I have many, Its just most are not very good. lol maybe like this one. Thats up to you to decide.

Michael Hacking.

Starfleet Command

Discussion: Classic Trek Ship on Starfleet Command

Michael Hacking — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:11:42 -0500

: Posted by Jen Herr in Discussion: Classic Trek Ship
: : Posted by Phillip Stonness in Discussion: Classic Trek Ship
: : : Posted by Daniel Lerner in Discussion: Classic Trek Ship
: : : 1) If we decided to make a ship based on the re-boot, then we have to wait until the movie comes out, since a lot of Star Trek canon may be changed in that movie. So I think it's premature to create a new ship based on the movie until we actually know what is happening in the movie.
: :
: : 1) True.
: : :
: : : 2) Last year we had a referendum for a new alt-RPG ship, and the majority of the club indicated that it would stretch club resources too much to create an additional ship. Now, that may have changed since we moved to WeBBspace, etc., but keep in mind we are essentially talking about having TWO ships from the same era. I think we should really check to make sure we have enough interest before we do it.
: : :
: : : -Daniel
: :
: : 2) False. If I remember the votes correctly, 34 voted for no new ship, 32 voted for the... pirate one? 29 voted for the Farscape-type one, 26 voted for the Lost-In-Other-Universe one, and there were another 20 or so odd votes for the other one. "No New Ship" won the preliminary, but there was no run off. A weak minority wanted no new ship at all.
: :
: : - Phillip
:
: If these numbers are accurate, taken together, people want a new alt-RPG by a 3 to 1 margin. If anyone interpreted these results to mean that no one wanted a new Alt-RPG, they were not only misrepresenting the results of the study, but really doing the club a disservice. I'm surprised there wasn't some sort of uproar at quashing the Alt RPG idea based on data like this. You don't have to spend a year taking stat classes to realize something is bunk here.
:
: It's also extremely interesting that in each of the above mentioned Alt RPG ideas, there are more than enough people to staff the respective ship, assuming that if someone voted for the idea, they would want to play on it. If that assumption is not accurate, you still only need roughly 7 to 10 people to make a viable environment, and I'd be surprised if there weren't that many people interested enough to play on these ships, with these vote totals.
:
: While we're at it, lets define "enough interest." In my term, enough interest meant a fully staffed ship (command staff, GM, and full set of DHs), a charter edict, and a ship spec. Does anyone propose a different definition?
:
: Jen

I agree with Jen here. All a ship needs is a CO, XO, COS, CE, CMO and a CSO. then a JO in each, I count. 10 people. Add a GM into the mix and put in oven till golden brown, Lovely. One ship ready to enjoy.
Starting a new ship people would be interested for the reason its new. Make it different from the others IE Alt RPG and I know I would be Interested. So now you only need 9.

Michael Hacking

Starfleet Command

Discussion: Classic Trek Ship on Starfleet Command

rwatt — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:12:43 -0500

: Posted by Henry Patnick in Discussion: Classic Trek Ship
: : Posted by Krys Bromilow in Discussion: Classic Trek Ship
: : : : 1) "Enough interest". I would probably agree with Jen with what that mean, but I would add one futher proviso - that it wouldn't stretch the membership too much (something that should be considered whenever we add another ship). Basically that means that even if you have enough people, it would remain active. For example, look at the reasons why Crell had to be sadley decommissioned, even though it had more than seven characters I believe. It's more than just a simple calculation - it's a review over whether it can actually be sustainable.
: : :
: : : Just a note on this, I think Crell was down to four or five, last time I checked. Though that was like a year ago.
: : : :
: : Just a note here, Crell was decommissioned because of those 7 characters...not one had posted in over 6 weeks, even before that it had been struggling. There just wasn't enough posting interest to keep a simline ongoing. Its time had passed...that doesn't mean that it can't be brought back some time in the future if interest for it picks up again. It is only hidden behind the board.
: :
: : Ft. Cpt Krys Bromilow
: : FComm 4
:
: The next step, it seems to me, would be to hold a vote on the Alt-rpg ship?
:
: Henry

Actually ... let's wait a moment here :)

Before I vote on anything I want more details than that what is provided in the discussion to date. There have been two proposals at least that i have seen put forward ... are we voting only for one of them? Both of them? Do we have the potential of getting both of them up and running? Do we have people willing and able to prepare the required ship specs, work on the charter, get the people to staff the ship ... do we have GMs willing/able to GM the ship? Those are just some questions I have about it.

I would also want to see how it is sufficiently different to what we currently have in the club in terms of alt rpg ships. Let's not do a disservice to the original era ship we already have by potentially taking people away from the Merrimack in Fleet 6 to staff a potential new ship which is going to be set in virtually the same era.

And before we think about restarting Fleet 7 ... why not make sure all the Fleets have the same number of rp areas again :) At the moment Fleets 1 and 4 have 5 ships, the others have 6 ... I think these Fleets need to get to an equal number before we think of going back to a 7th Fleet ... after all one of the reasons for closing down Fleet 7 in the first place (if my memory of the edict is correct) was to equate the workload across the FComms so they were all dealing with the same number of rping areas.

Thanks for taking your time to read my thoughts ...

- Russ

Starfleet Command

The role of CTO on Starfleet Command

lgarfiel — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:13:02 -0500

: Posted by Michael Hacking in The role of CTO
: : Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : : Posted by Amanda Noon in The role of CTO
: : : : Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : : : : Posted by Matthew Kleinman in The role of CTO
: : : : : : Posted by Michael Hacking in The role of CTO
: : : : : : Hi all Michael here.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : As I am not sure where this discussion belongs I am going to post it here.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : As the role to the CTO is becoming more common in the club I feel its time to clear a few things up about what a CTO does. What they are responsible for, who they report to, and which departments fall under them who they answer to. Stuff like that.
: : : : : :
: : : The role of CTO like CIO has always been in the past a swing position, and therefore how it works within each ship is upto the CO and the CTO/CIO. Personally I never had a CTO or CIO as I don't think they fit in with true Star Trek. Gene Rodenberry would turn in his grave at the very thought. Unfortunately Deep Space Nine and Voyager messed with his universe and now it doesn't seem so strange to even want such characters.
: : :
: : : From what I've seen CTO is no more common that it ever was, more importantly there are ships out in STF that NEED a COS, maybe we should be asking people to consider taking on those posts before we start turning CTO into a regular position.
:
: I fully agree with you there Amanda. The COS is a must on every ship. I think every ship should have a COS, CE, CSO, CMO with a at less one JO in each area before the "Swing" roles are considered. Ie CTO, CIO, Marines, pilots, Yomans, etc etc etc.
:
: I haven't counted the CNS in that one because some captains feel there is not alway an need for one. If as a captain you do then it would be classed as a DH but there is not always a need for a JO. (Gray area thing, and not really part of what I am saying here.)
:
: : : Amanda
: :
: : There was a Tac Officer Chang in TNG who gave Wesley his psych exam at the academy.... I don't think they ever specified what it was he exactly did.
: :
: : On another note, wouldn't the CTO/CIO/Marines all fall under the CoS Chain of Command, with the CoS being the DH?
:
: On this one I think the CTO should be counted as a DH. The name says it all in my view. Chief Tactical Officer. Like Chief Engineer or Chief Medical officer. I think the CTO should work along side not replay the COS. There two roles are one of the same. So they should work as team or partnership. With each helping the other.
:
: An idea if you want the Tactical officer to fall under the COS make him or she a Lt jg and call them something along the lines of TO. (Tactical Officer) or TA (Tactical Adviser) This way it is clear that they are not a DH. It works the other way as well. If you have a Sec officer who you want to give them something new to do or think they would suit a more combat role better make them a "S.ta" (Security. Tactical adviser.) The S. bit to show they are a sec officer first and that is there main role. The "ta" in small case to show they are a Tactical adviser second. Just an idea. Just trying to help, Maybe you haven't considered it in the past. I don't know? But as I say its just an idea. I have many, Its just most are not very good. lol maybe like this one. Thats up to you to decide.
:
: Michael Hacking.

The CTO in STF traces its origins to the Trafalgar class, which was the first spec to specify what positions it did and did not have. The original Trafalgar spec (this is going back to 1996 or so) explicitly stated that the ship did NOT have a CNS. Instead, it had a Chief Tactical Officer who was responsible specifically for ship-and-theater knowledge and activity while the COS remained responsible for internal security.

The starbase equivalent of CTO is Strategic Operations Officer, SOO, Worf's job on DS9.

CIO dates from 1998, I believe, and is a concept I have always disagreed with emphatically. It doesn't really serve a purpose that isn't already covered by the CTO/SOO (ship-and-larger level military knowledge) or CO (knowledge of what Starfleet's REAL mission for a ship is that's too sensitive for everyone to know) except for Black Ops / Section 31 BS, and I say BS because that's exactly what Section 31 et al is. Sorry, I calls em as I sees em. :-)

</Historical note>

CTO is, and IMO should remain, an optional Swing position used on Combat-centric vessels only. The CTO's responsibilities include ship-level weaponry (phasers, torps, and shields), tactical and strategic knowledge of the theater of operations (vis, before you go into an area where Klingons are known to be it's the CTO's job to make sure he knows the military-political status of the Empire in that area, what ships they're likely to encounter, and how best to blow them up), and to advise the CO on same. The same holds for the SOO, but he needs to know a specific area really really really well because he's not going anywhere.

Intelligence would be the responsibility of the CTO/SOO or the CO, or both, depending on how sensitive it is.

--AIDir Larry Garfield

Starfleet Command

LOA on Starfleet Command

kbromilow — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:30:01 -0500

Hey folks!

I am posting this for Geoff Joosten. He wasn't able to get onto the site tonite and needed to have an LOA posted. He will be out of town for Thanksgiving from tomorrow until Sunday. He wishes everybody a Happy Thanksgiving!

Ft. Cpt Krys Bromilow

Starfleet Command

The role of CTO on Starfleet Command

mmontemayor — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 03:44:29 -0500

: Posted by Larry Garfield (One Man Kazoo Band) in The role of CTO
: : Posted by Michael Hacking in The role of CTO
: : : Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : : : Posted by Amanda Noon in The role of CTO
: : : : : Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : : : : : Posted by Matthew Kleinman in The role of CTO
: : : : : : : Posted by Michael Hacking in The role of CTO
: : : : : : : Hi all Michael here.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : As I am not sure where this discussion belongs I am going to post it here.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : As the role to the CTO is becoming more common in the club I feel its time to clear a few things up about what a CTO does. What they are responsible for, who they report to, and which departments fall under them who they answer to. Stuff like that.
: : : : : : :
: : : : The role of CTO like CIO has always been in the past a swing position, and therefore how it works within each ship is upto the CO and the CTO/CIO. Personally I never had a CTO or CIO as I don't think they fit in with true Star Trek. Gene Rodenberry would turn in his grave at the very thought. Unfortunately Deep Space Nine and Voyager messed with his universe and now it doesn't seem so strange to even want such characters.
: : : :
: : : : From what I've seen CTO is no more common that it ever was, more importantly there are ships out in STF that NEED a COS, maybe we should be asking people to consider taking on those posts before we start turning CTO into a regular position.
: :
: : I fully agree with you there Amanda. The COS is a must on every ship. I think every ship should have a COS, CE, CSO, CMO with a at less one JO in each area before the "Swing" roles are considered. Ie CTO, CIO, Marines, pilots, Yomans, etc etc etc.
: :
: : I haven't counted the CNS in that one because some captains feel there is not alway an need for one. If as a captain you do then it would be classed as a DH but there is not always a need for a JO. (Gray area thing, and not really part of what I am saying here.)
: :
: : : : Amanda
: : :
: : : There was a Tac Officer Chang in TNG who gave Wesley his psych exam at the academy.... I don't think they ever specified what it was he exactly did.
: : :
: : : On another note, wouldn't the CTO/CIO/Marines all fall under the CoS Chain of Command, with the CoS being the DH?
: :
: : On this one I think the CTO should be counted as a DH. The name says it all in my view. Chief Tactical Officer. Like Chief Engineer or Chief Medical officer. I think the CTO should work along side not replay the COS. There two roles are one of the same. So they should work as team or partnership. With each helping the other.
: :
: : An idea if you want the Tactical officer to fall under the COS make him or she a Lt jg and call them something along the lines of TO. (Tactical Officer) or TA (Tactical Adviser) This way it is clear that they are not a DH. It works the other way as well. If you have a Sec officer who you want to give them something new to do or think they would suit a more combat role better make them a "S.ta" (Security. Tactical adviser.) The S. bit to show they are a sec officer first and that is there main role. The "ta" in small case to show they are a Tactical adviser second. Just an idea. Just trying to help, Maybe you haven't considered it in the past. I don't know? But as I say its just an idea. I have many, Its just most are not very good. lol maybe like this one. Thats up to you to decide.
: :
: : Michael Hacking.
:
: <Historical note>
:
: The CTO in STF traces its origins to the Trafalgar class, which was the first spec to specify what positions it did and did not have. The original Trafalgar spec (this is going back to 1996 or so) explicitly stated that the ship did NOT have a CNS. Instead, it had a Chief Tactical Officer who was responsible specifically for ship-and-theater knowledge and activity while the COS remained responsible for internal security.
:
: The starbase equivalent of CTO is Strategic Operations Officer, SOO, Worf's job on DS9.
:
: CIO dates from 1998, I believe, and is a concept I have always disagreed with emphatically. It doesn't really serve a purpose that isn't already covered by the CTO/SOO (ship-and-larger level military knowledge) or CO (knowledge of what Starfleet's REAL mission for a ship is that's too sensitive for everyone to know) except for Black Ops / Section 31 BS, and I say BS because that's exactly what Section 31 et al is. Sorry, I calls em as I sees em. :-)

Ahh, but for the Starfleet to have its own variation of the Tal Shiar. That's my NE's job, one I have on almost every ship that I have a PC, to bring them down. All great sci-fi shows tend to have their own version of Section 31. Heroes has the Primatech Paper Company. Highlander had the Watchers. Etc. They make for an intersting side-plot, when used correctly. Which I think ST really dropped the ball on. They should have made a regular cast member a Section 31 agent. Which only ENT really did.
;p
:)

: </Historical note>
:
: CTO is, and IMO should remain, an optional Swing position used on Combat-centric vessels only. The CTO's responsibilities include ship-level weaponry (phasers, torps, and shields), tactical and strategic knowledge of the theater of operations (vis, before you go into an area where Klingons are known to be it's the CTO's job to make sure he knows the military-political status of the Empire in that area, what ships they're likely to encounter, and how best to blow them up), and to advise the CO on same. The same holds for the SOO, but he needs to know a specific area really really really well because he's not going anywhere.
:
: Intelligence would be the responsibility of the CTO/SOO or the CO, or both, depending on how sensitive it is.
:
: --AIDir Larry Garfield

I also seem to remember a DS9 episode where Worf was out as XO of a Klingon ship, and his duties got re-assigned to the rest of the officers. They were complaining about being the CIO and Small Weapons Maintanence Officers, etc. So I assume he had multiple duties. Like when both Spock and later Decker were XO and Science Officer.

So, in some areas, it makes some sense to flesh out the CTO/CIO etc. where there are enough people willing to play those parts, and where there's a need for it on a ship.
~Mike

Starfleet Command

Discussion: The role of CTO on Starfleet Command

arobinson — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:22:54 -0500

: Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : Posted by Larry Garfield (One Man Kazoo Band) in The role of CTO
: : : Posted by Michael Hacking in The role of CTO
: : : : Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : : : : Posted by Amanda Noon in The role of CTO
: : : : : : Posted by Mike Montemayor in The role of CTO
: : : : : : : Posted by Matthew Kleinman in The role of CTO
: : : : : : : : Posted by Michael Hacking in The role of CTO
: : : : : : : : Hi all Michael here.
: : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : As I am not sure where this discussion belongs I am going to post it here.
: : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : As the role to the CTO is becoming more common in the club I feel its time to clear a few things up about what a CTO does. What they are responsible for, who they report to, and which departments fall under them who they answer to. Stuff like that.
: : : : : : : :
: : : : : The role of CTO like CIO has always been in the past a swing position, and therefore how it works within each ship is upto the CO and the CTO/CIO. Personally I never had a CTO or CIO as I don't think they fit in with true Star Trek. Gene Rodenberry would turn in his grave at the very thought. Unfortunately Deep Space Nine and Voyager messed with his universe and now it doesn't seem so strange to even want such characters.
: : : : :
: : : : : From what I've seen CTO is no more common that it ever was, more importantly there are ships out in STF that NEED a COS, maybe we should be asking people to consider taking on those posts before we start turning CTO into a regular position.
: : :
: : : I fully agree with you there Amanda. The COS is a must on every ship. I think every ship should have a COS, CE, CSO, CMO with a at less one JO in each area before the "Swing" roles are considered. Ie CTO, CIO, Marines, pilots, Yomans, etc etc etc.
: : :
: : : I haven't counted the CNS in that one because some captains feel there is not alway an need for one. If as a captain you do then it would be classed as a DH but there is not always a need for a JO. (Gray area thing, and not really part of what I am saying here.)
: : :
: : : : : Amanda
: : : :
: : : : There was a Tac Officer Chang in TNG who gave Wesley his psych exam at the academy.... I don't think they ever specified what it was he exactly did.
: : : :
: : : : On another note, wouldn't the CTO/CIO/Marines all fall under the CoS Chain of Command, with the CoS being the DH?
: : :
: : : On this one I think the CTO should be counted as a DH. The name says it all in my view. Chief Tactical Officer. Like Chief Engineer or Chief Medical officer. I think the CTO should work along side not replay the COS. There two roles are one of the same. So they should work as team or partnership. With each helping the other.
: : :
: : : An idea if you want the Tactical officer to fall under the COS make him or she a Lt jg and call them something along the lines of TO. (Tactical Officer) or TA (Tactical Adviser) This way it is clear that they are not a DH. It works the other way as well. If you have a Sec officer who you want to give them something new to do or think they would suit a more combat role better make them a "S.ta" (Security. Tactical adviser.) The S. bit to show they are a sec officer first and that is there main role. The "ta" in small case to show they are a Tactical adviser second. Just an idea. Just trying to help, Maybe you haven't considered it in the past. I don't know? But as I say its just an idea. I have many, Its just most are not very good. lol maybe like this one. Thats up to you to decide.
: : :
: : : Michael Hacking.
: :
: : <Historical note>
: :
: : The CTO in STF traces its origins to the Trafalgar class, which was the first spec to specify what positions it did and did not have. The original Trafalgar spec (this is going back to 1996 or so) explicitly stated that the ship did NOT have a CNS. Instead, it had a Chief Tactical Officer who was responsible specifically for ship-and-theater knowledge and activity while the COS remained responsible for internal security.

: :
: : The starbase equivalent of CTO is Strategic Operations Officer, SOO, Worf's job on DS9.
: :
: : CIO dates from 1998, I believe, and is a concept I have always disagreed with emphatically. It doesn't really serve a purpose that isn't already covered by the CTO/SOO (ship-and-larger level military knowledge) or CO (knowledge of what Starfleet's REAL mission for a ship is that's too sensitive for everyone to know) except for Black Ops / Section 31 BS, and I say BS because that's exactly what Section 31 et al is. Sorry, I calls em as I sees em. :-)
:
: Ahh, but for the Starfleet to have its own variation of the Tal Shiar. That's my NE's job, one I have on almost every ship that I have a PC, to bring them down. All great sci-fi shows tend to have their own version of Section 31. Heroes has the Primatech Paper Company. Highlander had the Watchers. Etc. They make for an intersting side-plot, when used correctly. Which I think ST really dropped the ball on. They should have made a regular cast member a Section 31 agent. Which only ENT really did.
: ;p
: :)
:
: : </Historical note>
: :
: : CTO is, and IMO should remain, an optional Swing position used on Combat-centric vessels only. The CTO's responsibilities include ship-level weaponry (phasers, torps, and shields), tactical and strategic knowledge of the theater of operations (vis, before you go into an area where Klingons are known to be it's the CTO's job to make sure he knows the military-political status of the Empire in that area, what ships they're likely to encounter, and how best to blow them up), and to advise the CO on same. The same holds for the SOO, but he needs to know a specific area really really really well because he's not going anywhere.
: :
: : Intelligence would be the responsibility of the CTO/SOO or the CO, or both, depending on how sensitive it is.
: :
: : --AIDir Larry Garfield
:
: I also seem to remember a DS9 episode where Worf was out as XO of a Klingon ship, and his duties got re-assigned to the rest of the officers. They were complaining about being the CIO and Small Weapons Maintanence Officers, etc. So I assume he had multiple duties. Like when both Spock and later Decker were XO and Science Officer.
:
: So, in some areas, it makes some sense to flesh out the CTO/CIO etc. where there are enough people willing to play those parts, and where there's a need for it on a ship.
: ~Mike

So, setting aside my Presidential hat for the moment, I figured that as the guy that wrote the current Academy Security course, I should weigh in. Given everything that's been written in this thread, no one has actually really expanded the sections that are currently in the course. It describes everything people have covered, just in a more concise way :P

The idea behind leaving the sections as short as they were was, as someone or other (I forget who) pointed out, to allow CO's to determine on a more case by case basis what exactly their CTO/CIO did, whilst leaving a basic solid framework to operate within. It is clearly stated a number of times throughout the course though that CTO's should only operate on very specifically combat oriented vessels and I've always been of the belief that CIO's have no place operating on a Starship but should instead be based on an Outpost or Starbase. Generally speaking, CIO's act as station chiefs for sectors, not Starships. Just as the SOO on a Starbase would monitor and control Strategic Operations within a given sphere of influence, so too would a CIO govern Intelligence assets and operations within that sphere. A CIO on a ship is restricted to being able to function within the confines of that ship and its mission only. A CIO aboard a Starbase or Outpost has the ability to move from place to place at will, hopping a lift on a Starship if its needed or being seconded to a Starship by their superiors on an as needed basis.

Whenever I see a CO assign a CTO to a science or general purpose vessel I do a head slap and wonder where I can get a twelve gauge and practice my Elmer Fudd impression. Whenever I see a CIO aboard any Starship as a permanent character I start plotting the best place to put a bullet in my own brain.

Do I think there is a need for CTO's aboard ships? Certainly, on the heavy duty combat ships like the Nimitz, Pendragon, Trafalgar at a push (I do have one aboard Athena). I definately don't think there's a role for them on any other kind of ship unless it's specifically designed to have one aboard.

Do I think there is a need for CIO's aboard ships? Absolutely not, never ever, over my dead body and all that :P. I'd more than happily like to see CIO aboard OP45 which is a border Station that would need to monitor Intelligence assets within Flarn space and something like OED V which covers a massive area and is essentially a commercial hub within its sector would probably benefit, though it's a take it or leave it on that one. Beyond that I genuinely believe that CIO's have no place elsewhere without a damn fine or temporary reason. There are always the odd security characters that have intelligence backgrounds (my own COS character aboard SB202 was an Intelligence officer during the war) which is fine and a great way to throw in a unique twist every now and again, but we really shouldn't be putting CIO's aboard Viking's and such. To be fair, I would even argue against it on a ship like the Nimitz which is designed to be a command platform.

So yah, essentially what I'm asking is, based on everything that's been said, has there been proven a need to expand the CTO's role into something more permanent? I don't think there has, but I will of course bow to the majority if it's shown there is one.

Andy
Security Course Author

Starfleet Command