Posted by Steven Sigle in Proposed charter for the U.S.S. Viking

Posted by Captain Matt Evans (FComm, Infinite Fleet) in Proposed charter for the U.S.S. Viking

Posted by Steven Sigle in Proposed charter for the U.S.S. Viking
Posted by… suppressed (1) by the Post Ghost! 👻
As Adam has stated this ship doesn’t break rules for being standard, nor does it need to be an Alt RPG due to the nature of new members being allowed to request the ship. Both of these can be done for any ship that requests to not have new members, or Alt RPG. As long as the ship maintains a canon approach to their sims, horror or not, then it’s a standard ship. Unless we are going to change the rules that a standard ship cannot have a theme that abides by canon, this all seems a bit silly then.

~Steven Sigle

So I do have to disagree with you on both points there, Steven.

First, there is a strong debate over whether the theme is working within canon. It is a haunted ship commanded by a sci-fi version of a vampire. Maybe we can streeeeetch canon to allow for the latter, but why? What is the actual downside here? This actually gives the ship’s CO and GM a little bit more freedom to make the theme work properly without stretching the rules to the breaking point. In fact, there a big downside to not being an alt-RPG as I’ll mention in response to the second point.

Second, how are new members going to be placed there upon request if they don’t know about the ship? There’s general agreement that given its theme, the Viking cannot have just any random new member placed there, as joining a haunted ship focused on that theme in characters, role-playing and sims is not what most members want when signing up to join a general Star Trek role-playing game. So the Viking currently does not accept new members, although I know the Viking would like new members who are interested in their theme. As I explained in my reply to Nick on one of his points, if a new member requests more info about alt-RPGs, we will tell them about those alt-RPGs that accept new members. If the Viking was one such alt-RPG, the Viking would be added to that email and the new member can tell us that yes, a haunted ship is something that would like for their first placement. But otherwise, unless a new member stumbles upon the ship while exploring the site before joining, there’s no other way they even know it is an option to request.

So not only is there zero downside to being an alt-RPG, it actually has the benefit of allowing the theme without stretching the canon rule to ridiculous lengths, it also allows new members to specifically request that theme.

No one has indicated the downside to being an alt-RPG… because there isn’t any! Honestly, let’s just get back to making sure that Amanda’s proposal is worded right, which is what Nick and Matt were trying to do.

Daniel

If stretching cannon is an issue, which I will argue that the Viking tries really hard to keep in cannon and still have some tropes for fun, our club has stretched cannon for a very long time. Mermaids, dwarf cats from other dimensions, literally cannibals that can powers from eating their dead, sentient gorillas from space etc.

We have for a long time as a club in our standard ships stretched cannon very very far, so Viking has theme to match the stretching, but it isn’t like all our other ships aren’t just as guilty of going why the heck not quite a few times.

That is my main thought is as long as someone is trying to make rp fit into the world of trek we do allow it, so I guess I don’t see the difference here on the Viking who tries the very same things.

~Steven Sigle

I think it very interesting that you latched onto the canon stretching point and completely ignored everything else that Dan pointed out. Your mention of canon being stretched seems to me, similar to what Katy Darrah had said earlier, to be a one-off thing. Basically have a wacky sim every once in awhile but keep it relatively business as usual the rest of the time. While the crew of the Viking seem to be free to ignore the horror elements, and that seems humorous to behold, a standard ship wouldn’t be haunted longer than an episode or sim in length.

The necessity of this charter hinges on the interpretation of whether or not a “psychological horror”, from the Viking’s MOTD, theme is standard. For the very same reason that the Constellation has a charter to be a comedy ship, I would interpret it as being necessary. Yes the Connie have the allowance for positions that aren’t standard, but the Viking could take advantage of that by adding something similar with the horror theme.

Ultimately there has been a debate over the Viking’s status for at least the last couple of terms. With a charter it ensures that the Viking can remain themed in such a way, or until a new CO decides they don’t want to be horror themed, while also empowering the command staff to really stretch their creativity by not being bound by common sense or canon.

Matt

Not ignoring Dan’s other points, as that is an issue in and of itself that could be for any ship. If a ship that doesn’t allow new people wishes to allow people to request the ship, you can come into the same issue. It isn’t unique to Viking alone in that instance. What I am just saying is we often like as a club to stretch, at least with our characters, the rules quite fragrantly. This isn’t a problem until a ship wants to just have horror themed sims non stop, and if that is the line we want to draw that is something that should be up to then change our bylaws perhaps cause there is no rule against it.

Another point brought up, the CO can just change it, while it isn’t impossible to remove charters of course I don’t like the idea of just every CO debating to add remove charters as it where. They don’t need to be permanent, but I am always wary of just making it an on off switch anytime a new CO shows up either. Going through the effort to make a ship have an Alt RPG charter shouldn’t be something we consider so easily removable as that.

This is mostly the food for thought, I mean myself I never saw the point of Connie having a charter if they don’t break cannon in their approach. If the actively do, then that is a very different story. We have ships with, albeit, much more minor themes such as science, or focuses on marines and fighter squadrons (two items I might add we have no real cannon basses are still used in the current Trek era) and we have zero issues with these type of ideas cause overall ships are trying to use these unique ideas and keep the ship still within cannon.

~Steven Sigle

Here is the thing, though: A charter is not only for ships that may or may not break cannon. It is for ships set in different timelines or with a specific permanent theme. While the former doesn’t apply to the Viking, the latter does. As has been pointed out by Katy and others it’s not an issue if it’s one character or one sim where rules are stretched or maybe even broken. The permanent character/flavour of the ship is what makes it need a charter or not, if that character isn’t what you would traditionally expect. It’s there also where I see the difference to ships with marines or a fighter squadron. If that’s not your thing but you really like a ship with them on otherwise, you’ll easily find a way to deal with that. Yet even though it has been stated that a player can choose ignore the horror theme, I find that very hard to imagine. If the main sim, side sims and other people’s characters are all based on that, how can that be ignored? I was the XO of the Connie for several years and I can tell you: completely ignoring a ships theme like that when almost everyone and everything caters to it is nearly impossible. So such a unique ship deserves a charter as it gives the crew more liberties to fully play it out. The Viking won’t lose anything by having a charter. It’ll only gain things (like the chance to accept new members again or creating custom positions if they’d like to).

So instead of continuing to talk in circles about whether or not a ship needs a charter, could we all please focus our attention back on the proposed charter and help fine tune the wording, so that Viking gets the best charter possible?

~Silke