Posted by Wail Q in Discussion: LEGOE Final Draft (Ends 2/16/2021)

Posted by Vice Admiral Sarah Hemenway (President) in Discussion: LEGOE Final Draft (Ends 2/16/2021)

Posted by Fleet Captain Russell Watt (Public Nuisance for Life / AEDir) in Discussion: LEGOE Final Draft (Ends 2/16/2021)
Posted by… suppressed (1) by the Post Ghost! 👻

Snip

As far as I’m aware, the majority of ECs since the introduction of the AEC has mostly used that role as a back-up role, occasionally asking a second opinion, but not often. The AEC is included in almost all decisions by the EC so they can take over EC if something happens. But for one or two exceptions, no EC’s generally did not delegate duties to AEC, which was the original expectation of the role.

I have checked in with several previous ECs and my understanding is that, back until 2012 at least, the AEC has not typically been used as an assistant in the sense that it’s a supporting role, but solely as a back-up if something went wrong with the EC (which was, as mentioned, the original intent and why LEGOE is worded to prevent anything more). The original proposal was not my idea, for the record – I posted it because it was brought to me in email by our EC/AEC from last election who weren’t able to post it themselves right then.

The biggest issue with the AEC becoming an EC Jr. type role is that it would not make sense for the AEC to vote then and we’re back to two experienced members of the club losing their say in the election process in return for a potentially stressful month of moderating political foibles. Is the potential benefit of the assistant role worth that?

If there’s a way to reduce the stress of the Election Cooridinator I think that would be worth a lot.

Again, I am also not suggesting that the AEC be removed. I am changing the word “Assistant” to the word “Emergency” in much of LEGOE and then giving the person the ability to vote back. Please don’t lump me in with my VP, who is supporting removing the position entirely. :) Of course, I could be convinced to replace the EC entirely with the Chief EGO and making the election procedure part of the responsibilities of EGO…

I didn’t expect your reply would make me laugh! :)

(It’s probably foolhardy to stick an oar into Command so soon after rejoining, but here goes nothing.)

I’m wondering whether the proposed wording of the bill means the Emergency Election Coordinator ever loses the right to vote, even if they have taken over the EC role.

The bill says “During the stated conditions, the Emergency Election Coordinator’s powers are those of the Election Coordinator, and shall also be required to perform the tasks of the Election Coordinator.”

Meaning they never actually become the EC, they just have the powers and perform the tasks of the EC. That would be fine except section G of the bill only exempts the EC from voting rights and never mentions the EEC.

One fix would be to change the above sentence to “During the stated conditions, the Emergency Election Coordinator’s powers and rights are those of the Election Coordinator, and shall also be required to perform the tasks of the Election Coordinator.”

I think that’s still a bit messy. The other fix would be to treat the EEC more explicitly as a successor. The sentence would then simply read “During the stated conditions the Emergency Election Coordinator becomes the Election Coordinator.” (I don’t actually like the use of ‘emergency’ in the title and would prefer something like ‘Second Election Coordinator’, but that’s a more minor point.

Excellent point, Wail. I am glad you jumped in here. I agree that your wording is still not quite the fix. We just need to indicate that in the event our backup needs to fill in for the Election Coordinator to process voting results that at that point their vote no longer counts and they become the tie-breaker if needed. At the moment it’s unclear if the EEC’s regular vote would count or not in that situation.

I’ve never been an EC or AEC in STF. I have been a returning officer in a real world organisation that was seeking to be wound up and I agreed to that because
A) my boss was a member of the board and couldn’t do it (due to conflict of interest);
and
B) if I didn’t do it, the back and forth debate about it would likely go on for years between the board members (and if you think STF Command is bad at times, believe me, they made STF Command at its most heated look like a kid’s birthday party in comparison - my boss refuses to even discuss things with them and gets me to do so, which is interesting considering we are currently needing to use their set up for our primary tasks).

Please note: I AM NOT OFFERING TO BE ELECTION COORDINATOR. (Capital letters and bolding because I want to be clear on that point and not because I’m shouting). I know I wouldn’t have the patience, time, temperament or enough alcohol to do that role justice. I have also never been Election Coordinator or Assistant Election Coordinator. I have been involved in the elections in asking questions, voting and I even made the mistake of running for VeeP once. So, while I’m not involved in the things behind the scenes of it like Daniel/Joe P/Calé/Sarah/other ECs/AECs that have been in the role, I have been involved in the other side of it.

Darn… another one bites the dust…

Do any of the other … Executive Assistant positions (that’s what they are called, isn’t it?) have an assistant? SOX/Librarian/Community Engagement/etc? What happens if they are unable to do their job and some crisis in their area comes up that needs immediate attention? (I mean, the EC is slightly different because they are responsible for running the elctions for Prez/VeeP and EGO and making sure it is fair for all concerned and if something goes wrong there, it is likely to be a bigger problem than in any of the others).

Of those, only the Librarian has an Assistant. If the other positions are unable to do their job, it would go to the Office of the President to handle it, either directly or by replacing the EA.

The CMM has the option to appoint assistants.

Regarding the responsibilities of the role and what can/can’t be done, I have two real questions about the logistics of running and administering the election.
- MOTD Updates (required by LEGOE legislation) - if EC is uncertain about how to do this, does LEGOE enable them to call on assistance to do that? Who are those people? If the roles allowed to do that is also running for election, how does that get dealt with?
- Regarding the actual creation of the voting card - if the EC is uncertain about how they do that, does LEGOE enable them to call on assistance to do that? And who are those people? If the roles allowed to do that is also running for election, how does that get dealt with?

In both cases, TECH is required to support the EC with the answers to those questions. It’s actually in LEGOE. :)

There was a proposal to either give the AEC a vote and/or make them more of an assistant. There was split views on the former, and I think only one or two former ECs said they used their AECs in the fashion of more of an assistant.

(I was EC for three or four of those elections, I generally didn’t delegate to the AEC except when I had to declare an LOA for a few days.)

Daniel

Daniel

In the end, I believe that whatever we decide has to be supportive of the EC so that they can effectively manage the elections of our club of around 100 people. (And I believe we all want that, I don’t think I’m alone in that desire.)
- It seems we have people who can do the role confident in the technical aspects of it and who take on all of the roles with limited assistance needed.
- It also seems we have other people who can do the role who would appreciate the support that a second person can provide them in the role, to bounce ideas off, and to get technical support from others where LEGOE allows that support to be requested/provided.

Is it somehow able to be done on an EC by EC basis … discussion of the Prez and the EC about whether an AEC is needed? But that gets messy, I guess.

Russell

I do think that the EC should feel supported and not like they have no one to bounce things off of. In my experience, I leaned on previous ECs and the President (who was not running for re-election) when I needed another neutral opinion. I think that gets a little too messy, personally, to change things election-to-election, particularly since people don’t always know if there is going to be an issue. I’m actually really beginning to like the idea of this all being EGO’s problem…

Sarah
President

I’ve never been an EC, but with support from TECH in the Bill and the possibility of leaning on the President (or whoever next in the chain of command isn’t too involved in the election) I agree with Sarah.

I don’t think I would agree with making it EGOs problem. To my mind there’s a distinction between the EGO function of bringing institutional memory and wisdom to bear and the EC’s role of impartiality. We don’t need the EC to be a club stalwart, just to be capable of both the job and the impartiality that entails.

Wail

We could put all of STF’s problems on EGO while we are at it. The more annoying they are the better. :)

Adam W.